4 ms·

> Tens of millions of people lost access This is a bit hyperbolic. You just have to ask for it at the counter and show ID.

ibejoeb 2y ago
Only certain documents are accepted: photo documents issued by a US state and certain federal documents. There are some exceptions in the initial act text, but in practice, nobody is going to accept your nursery school record. There are certainly 10s of millions of people who don't have direct access to this drug.
- phaedrus441 2y ago
  You honestly think there are 10s of millions of people wanting a decongestant in the United States without ID? This is ridiculous and I agree with the other commenter, a bit hyperbolic.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    I honestly think it's on that order, yes. Anyone who has had a respiratory infection, a sinus headache, or seasonal allergies. Anyone who would take NyQuil. Over the course of 18 years. Why is that so hard to believe? In fact, now that I think about it more, it's probably a lot more.
  - efitz 2y ago
    No, but why the hell should someone else’s misbehavior cost me time and inconvenience? The cost of these regulations is millions, perhaps billions of dollars in extra effort, bookkeeping and security by tens of thousands of businesses, not to mention lost productivity and frustration on the part of everyone else evolved, and moats of the costs and inconvenience is borne by people outside the government, who are not committing a crime. It’s bat shit crazy that bureaucrats are allowed to steal this much productivity from the economy.
  - iterance 2y ago
    26 million Americans lack valid government-issued IDs, and of this 26m, minority groups comprise the vast majority. https://bluenotary.us/how-many-american-citizens-don-t-have-id/ https://bluenotary.us/how-many-american-citizens-don-t-have-...
    - phaedrus441 2y ago
      Wow I was surprised by this figure, so I tried to find the source everyone quotes. It appears to be a 2006 telephone survey of 987 randomly-selected voting age citizens that were then weighted for an underrepresentation of race (so perhaps not that accurate). Anecdotally, I work in a safety net hospital and it is really rare for someone to come in without ID, which is why those numbers seemed so surprising to me... https://www.brennancenter.org/media/6697/download https://www.brennancenter.org/media/6697/download I could easily have missed a better or more recent study, so if anyone has one please post it!
    - 1propionyl 2y ago
      The answer here is to make getting a government issued ID a straightforward matter and a national priority. I cannot think of another significant country that hasn't had this figured out for decades.
      - jujube3 2y ago
        Pretending that government IDs are super duper hard to give out is a time-honored American tradition. After all, imagine if the government had a database with every person's name in it! You'd have like 300 million rows? Nobody's built a computing machine that could do that. And then how would you get the cards to people? You'd have to send out horses and buggies to every corner of the nation. And where would you find enough coachmen to do that, and roads to drive the coaches on??? No, clearly it's unpossible. So we have to reserve the use of government IDs for really important things, like checking if you can buy cold medicine, and voting must remain insecure.
        tempfile 2y ago
  - reaperman 2y ago
    Yes - I often lose my wallet/ID and I don’t think I’m in in the 0.1%ile. Even if 1% are like me, thats 30 million Americans.
  - jalapenos 2y ago
    I think these basic facts should be taught in school. Yes, millions don't have ID. It seems trite to someone in the middle class, but it genuinely is not a priority to certain demographics, given the challenge of getting it. That challenge may seem trivial to a frequenter of Hacker News, but we're a diverse society. The only barrier to getting a decongestant should be: having the money to pay for it.
- efitz 2y ago
  And if they require a drivers license but their system is based on an electronic reader and that reader is broken, then you are out of luck. No sudafed for you.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    Pretty sure I've even commented here before about this, but I was refused at an LA Walgreens pharmacy when I presented both a NY ID and a US passport. Would only accept CA ID.
rconti 2y ago
Is that true? I honestly don't know. I thought it went away entirely. I guess that's what hiding it behind the counter does to those who aren't in the know.
- CrazyStat 2y ago
  Yes.
tomatocracy 2y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually an underestimate, because this saga has had a knock on effect on decongestant formulations sold outside the US as well. I don't know exactly why this has happened but my guess is it may be due to economies of scale in manufacturing or licencing overheads. It's hard to find a pharmacy which even sells pseudoephedrine based decongestant if you're in the UK, for example.
- agurk 2y ago
  Boots (a large UK pharmacy chain) sells it, but it's "behind the counter" so you have to ask for it. They will also only sell you one pack of 12 per visit It's the same for codeine-mixed products. Recently I got denied a simultaneous purchase of pseudoephedrine and ibuprofen/codeine - I was I was only allowed one. I'm not sure if it's policy, law or I just looked suspicious.
  - tomatocracy 2y ago
    Thanks. Looks like the buying limits are a legal requirement: https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/pseudoephedrine-and-ephedrine-nasal-decongestants https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/pseudoephedrine-and-ep... ) Seems like it was also classified as Pharmacy only (behind the counter) or prescription instead of just OTC.

ibejoeb 2y ago

Only certain documents are accepted: photo documents issued by a US state and certain federal documents. There are some exceptions in the initial act text, but in practice, nobody is going to accept your nursery school record. There are certainly 10s of millions of people who don't have direct access to this drug.

phaedrus441 2y ago
You honestly think there are 10s of millions of people wanting a decongestant in the United States without ID? This is ridiculous and I agree with the other commenter, a bit hyperbolic.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  I honestly think it's on that order, yes. Anyone who has had a respiratory infection, a sinus headache, or seasonal allergies. Anyone who would take NyQuil. Over the course of 18 years. Why is that so hard to believe? In fact, now that I think about it more, it's probably a lot more.
- efitz 2y ago
  No, but why the hell should someone else’s misbehavior cost me time and inconvenience? The cost of these regulations is millions, perhaps billions of dollars in extra effort, bookkeeping and security by tens of thousands of businesses, not to mention lost productivity and frustration on the part of everyone else evolved, and moats of the costs and inconvenience is borne by people outside the government, who are not committing a crime. It’s bat shit crazy that bureaucrats are allowed to steal this much productivity from the economy.
- iterance 2y ago
  26 million Americans lack valid government-issued IDs, and of this 26m, minority groups comprise the vast majority. https://bluenotary.us/how-many-american-citizens-don-t-have-id/ https://bluenotary.us/how-many-american-citizens-don-t-have-...
  - phaedrus441 2y ago
    Wow I was surprised by this figure, so I tried to find the source everyone quotes. It appears to be a 2006 telephone survey of 987 randomly-selected voting age citizens that were then weighted for an underrepresentation of race (so perhaps not that accurate). Anecdotally, I work in a safety net hospital and it is really rare for someone to come in without ID, which is why those numbers seemed so surprising to me... https://www.brennancenter.org/media/6697/download https://www.brennancenter.org/media/6697/download I could easily have missed a better or more recent study, so if anyone has one please post it!
  - 1propionyl 2y ago
    The answer here is to make getting a government issued ID a straightforward matter and a national priority. I cannot think of another significant country that hasn't had this figured out for decades.
    - jujube3 2y ago
      Pretending that government IDs are super duper hard to give out is a time-honored American tradition. After all, imagine if the government had a database with every person's name in it! You'd have like 300 million rows? Nobody's built a computing machine that could do that. And then how would you get the cards to people? You'd have to send out horses and buggies to every corner of the nation. And where would you find enough coachmen to do that, and roads to drive the coaches on??? No, clearly it's unpossible. So we have to reserve the use of government IDs for really important things, like checking if you can buy cold medicine, and voting must remain insecure.
      - tempfile 2y ago
- reaperman 2y ago
  Yes - I often lose my wallet/ID and I don’t think I’m in in the 0.1%ile. Even if 1% are like me, thats 30 million Americans.
- jalapenos 2y ago
  I think these basic facts should be taught in school. Yes, millions don't have ID. It seems trite to someone in the middle class, but it genuinely is not a priority to certain demographics, given the challenge of getting it. That challenge may seem trivial to a frequenter of Hacker News, but we're a diverse society. The only barrier to getting a decongestant should be: having the money to pay for it.
efitz 2y ago
And if they require a drivers license but their system is based on an electronic reader and that reader is broken, then you are out of luck. No sudafed for you.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  Pretty sure I've even commented here before about this, but I was refused at an LA Walgreens pharmacy when I presented both a NY ID and a US passport. Would only accept CA ID.

rconti 2y ago

Is that true? I honestly don't know. I thought it went away entirely. I guess that's what hiding it behind the counter does to those who aren't in the know.

CrazyStat 2y ago
Yes.

tomatocracy 2y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually an underestimate, because this saga has had a knock on effect on decongestant formulations sold outside the US as well. I don't know exactly why this has happened but my guess is it may be due to economies of scale in manufacturing or licencing overheads. It's hard to find a pharmacy which even sells pseudoephedrine based decongestant if you're in the UK, for example.

agurk 2y ago
Boots (a large UK pharmacy chain) sells it, but it's "behind the counter" so you have to ask for it. They will also only sell you one pack of 12 per visit It's the same for codeine-mixed products. Recently I got denied a simultaneous purchase of pseudoephedrine and ibuprofen/codeine - I was I was only allowed one. I'm not sure if it's policy, law or I just looked suspicious.
- tomatocracy 2y ago
  Thanks. Looks like the buying limits are a legal requirement: https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/pseudoephedrine-and-ephedrine-nasal-decongestants https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/pseudoephedrine-and-ep... ) Seems like it was also classified as Pharmacy only (behind the counter) or prescription instead of just OTC.