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> Because democracy and critical individual rights do not rely on being able to get cake from a particular person or company? Free speech doesn't work like thi

> Because democracy and critical individual rights do not rely on being able to get cake from a particular person or company? Free speech doesn't work like this, money counts as free speech. Your idealism about democracy is irrelevant - courts have ruled MANY times that speech is more much than just words. > Conservatives generally aren't racist, but that is the trope that the leftists have put forward about them Incorrect, conservatives don't realize that even if they say reasonable things but then follow it up with a slur then they just undid what they said. It's hard to take conservatives seriously on anything because they seem unable to speak above the level of an average middle school boy. People "censor" conservative opinions because conservatives don't know how to say their opinion in a pleasant way. Talk like Trump at work. Go ahead and try. He talks about women like they're dogs, he treats minorities like scum. You WILL be fired. Not because you would be conservative. > I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of filtering mode, like a "safe search" or "parental filter" that can easily be turned off This would disproportionately censor conservatives, for the reasons above. Trump sure as hell isn't making it past "safe search".

wakawaka28 2y ago
>>Because democracy and critical individual rights do not rely on being able to get cake from a particular person or company? >Free speech doesn't work like this, money counts as free speech. Your idealism about democracy is irrelevant - courts have ruled MANY times that speech is more much than just words. Let me put it another way. If you want to pay someone to say something for you, your free speech rights don't have precedence over their right to free speech. Your desire to want to pay someone to do work does not surpass their religious convictions to not do it. My "idealism" is really pragmatism. >Incorrect, conservatives don't realize that even if they say reasonable things but then follow it up with a slur then they just undid what they said. Have you read anything that liberals put out? It's some of the most profane stuff out there. They overused profanity to the point that it doesn't have any punch anymore, while *choosing* to get butthurt about all kinds of other harmless words so they can get clout. >People "censor" conservative opinions because conservatives don't know how to say their opinion in a pleasant way. That is definitely not true. I've seen so much censorship of even the most mundane things, you can't sell me this story. Twitter was plenty unpleasant before Elon bought it. It was just leftist-leaning to an extreme and the only people who got to talk were in agreement with whatever unpleasantness was allowed there. Now that they can see a tiny bit of the real spectrum of popular opinion, they're crying about it. >It's hard to take conservatives seriously on anything because they seem unable to speak above the level of an average middle school boy. As with any crowd, there are smart ones and dumb ones. Don't get me started on the dumb liberals. The smart conservatives are speaking on a level exactly the same as their liberal counterparts. >Talk like Trump at work. Go ahead and try. If I was a billionaire like him and all my friends turned on me, I might do just that. He is actually a very nice guy and was popular in all circles before he ran for President. What changed about him? Absolutely nothing. >He talks about women like they're dogs, he treats minorities like scum. He talks about some women like they're dogs, because they stabbed him in the back. All of the outrage about Trump was way overblown. A celebrity known for a sharp sense of humor insulted someone he doesn't like, that must mean he's irredeemably against their demographic group! Meanwhile half the world has been calling him a Nazi or a Russian infiltrator for years with zero evidence, even after he got shot. Many minorities are conservatives and love Trump's policies and sense of humor. He was on Oprah and she asked him if he would consider running for president. Whoopi Goldberg used to be friends with him, and Hillary said he couldn't be bought (although that is contested, she was definitely a friend of his). He did a lot for criminal justice reform and supported HBCUs during his first term. He had a black girlfriend before his current wife and she (like Stormy Daniels) said nothing negative about him until she was pressured into lying. You're not going to convince me he's a deranged racist because I know better than that. He is not against any minority, but he's not accepting lies about his own race either. This is a bit old but it's a list of 17 black celebrities that supported Trump in 2020: https://www.essence.com/celebrity/black-donald-trump-supporters/#79383 https://www.essence.com/celebrity/black-donald-trump-support... >This would disproportionately censor conservatives, for the reasons above. Trump sure as hell isn't making it past "safe search". You're wrong about this, although I don't know what kind of Puritan-grade filter you're thinking of. Liberals swear just as much as conservatives. I'm probably done with this conversation because it's too much work to convince one person they're wrong. You're just going to have to look into things on your own. I don't expect that you will, but you'll feel a lot better if you do seek out some real context. It's not easy because the media has been smearing him for years now, but I am hopeful that the facts will become apparent soon to all the mentally ill who are freaking out about him.
- consteval 2y ago
  > Your desire to want to pay someone to do work does not surpass their religious convictions to not do it. My "idealism" is really pragmatism. How is this pragmatic? In all my real-world experience, money trumps all. It's trivial to pay religious people to say things they don't really believe. Pastors do it all the time, with no pressure from others. In the real world, this is how things work. Yes it sucks and yes I wish people had more conviction. People are weak in this money driven world and I can't necessarily blame them. > Have you read anything that liberals put out? It's some of the most profane stuff out there. They overused profanity to the point that it doesn't have any punch anymore, while choosing to get butthurt about all kinds of other harmless words so they can get clout. I just don't think this is true at all. If you look at the democratic candidates, they were very well spoken and respectful. IMO, to their detriment. They should've been more rude, and that cost them from a populist perspective. > As with any crowd, there are smart ones and dumb ones It's not a matter of smart or dumb. I believe Trump is a smart person, I also believe Elon is a smart person. But in their populist endeavors, they say MANY reprehensible things. For example, can they address immigration without racism? Certainly it's possible, but they haven't. These aren't randos online, these are the face of the republican party and the future president. Sure, you can find dumb liberals. But does Kamala use slurs or question how black someone is? No. That's the difference. The example republicans have is a very poor one. > He talks about some women like they're dogs, because they stabbed him in the back Okay? This changes nothing. If your boss is rude to you and you call her a whore, you're getting fired. End of, have a nice chat with HR. This is what conservatives don't understand. You don't get a free pass to say whatever vile shit you like just because you think it's justified. That's why you get "censored".
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    >How is this pragmatic? In all my real-world experience, money trumps all. It's trivial to pay religious people to say things they don't really believe. Pastors do it all the time, with no pressure from others. The original argument was about forcing someone to make a cake that offends their religious beliefs, and you're bringing in cases of people voluntarily saying things for money. Again, nobody should be able to compel you to do an act of speech (for money or otherwise) under some pretense of civil rights or their own free speech. >If you look at the democratic candidates, they were very well spoken and respectful. IMO, to their detriment. They should've been more rude, and that cost them from a populist perspective. You mean like when they called Trump's supporters "garbage", "Nazi", "racist", "Russian spies", "insurrectionists", and called for violence and cancel culture against them, etc.? Being rude to even moderate people is what really cost the left from a populist perspective. I had a girlfriend break up with me because she suspected I might be a Trump supporter, despite me insisting the opposite (which was true at the time). A lot of people are sick of being demonized because they're normal and not down with "trans children" or whatever other insane ideology the left has taken up. The left routinely applies every nasty label to their critics. Got a problem with high inflation caused by current administration policies? What are you, a Trump supporter? Then you must necessarily be every -ist and -phobe they can think of, and many of them will hate your guts from then on. Have you been censored for saying completely normal things online? For valuing second amendment rights? For wanting your kids to not be indoctrinated into various ideologies in school? Oh you must be a Trump supporter, and you deserve everything you got coming for that. This is how these "polite" leftists act. These people need to learn a lesson, not to mess with people like that. >For example, can they address immigration without racism? Certainly it's possible, but they haven't. The Democrats are the ones bringing race into this and denying that there is even a problem. They desperately want to flood the country with migrants because they think it favors their party, and also because various billionaires want us distracted from what they are doing to our government. >But does Kamala use slurs or question how black someone is? She denied being black for years, then flipped the script. They even changed the way her name was pronounced to make her sound more "black". Trump said very politely that he did not care about her race, he cared about lying. What more do you want. I've never heard him use a slur against any race. Liberals of all standing often call him a Nazi. What kind of example does that set? >This changes nothing. If your boss is rude to you and you call her a whore, you're getting fired. End of, have a nice chat with HR. This is what conservatives don't understand. No, conservatives understand very well and usually have to deny being conservative. Many have been fired or blocked from promotion for espousing even moderate conservative ideas politely. Leftists haven't been afraid of that kind of crap in at least 20 years, in my opinion. I remember when they were all on board with pretending to be Christian to get by, and I don't want to go back to that. I'm not talking about merely being censored for rude comments. Again, the constitution protects rude speech, so that is irrelevant to censorship. So-called "misinformation" has been routinely censored on social media. We cannot have a free society when you can't do simple stuff like sharing news stories about presidential candidates or anything else of public interest online. Wanna know why some Republicans are so angry and rude? Because moralizing lunatics have been attacking them for years! I don't want our political discourse to be lowered any more, but the maniacs who want to censor everybody have to be dealt with swiftly and soundly.

wakawaka28 2y ago

>>Because democracy and critical individual rights do not rely on being able to get cake from a particular person or company? >Free speech doesn't work like this, money counts as free speech. Your idealism about democracy is irrelevant - courts have ruled MANY times that speech is more much than just words. Let me put it another way. If you want to pay someone to say something for you, your free speech rights don't have precedence over their right to free speech. Your desire to want to pay someone to do work does not surpass their religious convictions to not do it. My "idealism" is really pragmatism. >Incorrect, conservatives don't realize that even if they say reasonable things but then follow it up with a slur then they just undid what they said. Have you read anything that liberals put out? It's some of the most profane stuff out there. They overused profanity to the point that it doesn't have any punch anymore, while *choosing* to get butthurt about all kinds of other harmless words so they can get clout. >People "censor" conservative opinions because conservatives don't know how to say their opinion in a pleasant way. That is definitely not true. I've seen so much censorship of even the most mundane things, you can't sell me this story. Twitter was plenty unpleasant before Elon bought it. It was just leftist-leaning to an extreme and the only people who got to talk were in agreement with whatever unpleasantness was allowed there. Now that they can see a tiny bit of the real spectrum of popular opinion, they're crying about it. >It's hard to take conservatives seriously on anything because they seem unable to speak above the level of an average middle school boy. As with any crowd, there are smart ones and dumb ones. Don't get me started on the dumb liberals. The smart conservatives are speaking on a level exactly the same as their liberal counterparts. >Talk like Trump at work. Go ahead and try. If I was a billionaire like him and all my friends turned on me, I might do just that. He is actually a very nice guy and was popular in all circles before he ran for President. What changed about him? Absolutely nothing. >He talks about women like they're dogs, he treats minorities like scum. He talks about some women like they're dogs, because they stabbed him in the back. All of the outrage about Trump was way overblown. A celebrity known for a sharp sense of humor insulted someone he doesn't like, that must mean he's irredeemably against their demographic group! Meanwhile half the world has been calling him a Nazi or a Russian infiltrator for years with zero evidence, even after he got shot. Many minorities are conservatives and love Trump's policies and sense of humor. He was on Oprah and she asked him if he would consider running for president. Whoopi Goldberg used to be friends with him, and Hillary said he couldn't be bought (although that is contested, she was definitely a friend of his). He did a lot for criminal justice reform and supported HBCUs during his first term. He had a black girlfriend before his current wife and she (like Stormy Daniels) said nothing negative about him until she was pressured into lying. You're not going to convince me he's a deranged racist because I know better than that. He is not against any minority, but he's not accepting lies about his own race either. This is a bit old but it's a list of 17 black celebrities that supported Trump in 2020: https://www.essence.com/celebrity/black-donald-trump-supporters/#79383 https://www.essence.com/celebrity/black-donald-trump-support... >This would disproportionately censor conservatives, for the reasons above. Trump sure as hell isn't making it past "safe search". You're wrong about this, although I don't know what kind of Puritan-grade filter you're thinking of. Liberals swear just as much as conservatives. I'm probably done with this conversation because it's too much work to convince one person they're wrong. You're just going to have to look into things on your own. I don't expect that you will, but you'll feel a lot better if you do seek out some real context. It's not easy because the media has been smearing him for years now, but I am hopeful that the facts will become apparent soon to all the mentally ill who are freaking out about him.

consteval 2y ago
> Your desire to want to pay someone to do work does not surpass their religious convictions to not do it. My "idealism" is really pragmatism. How is this pragmatic? In all my real-world experience, money trumps all. It's trivial to pay religious people to say things they don't really believe. Pastors do it all the time, with no pressure from others. In the real world, this is how things work. Yes it sucks and yes I wish people had more conviction. People are weak in this money driven world and I can't necessarily blame them. > Have you read anything that liberals put out? It's some of the most profane stuff out there. They overused profanity to the point that it doesn't have any punch anymore, while choosing to get butthurt about all kinds of other harmless words so they can get clout. I just don't think this is true at all. If you look at the democratic candidates, they were very well spoken and respectful. IMO, to their detriment. They should've been more rude, and that cost them from a populist perspective. > As with any crowd, there are smart ones and dumb ones It's not a matter of smart or dumb. I believe Trump is a smart person, I also believe Elon is a smart person. But in their populist endeavors, they say MANY reprehensible things. For example, can they address immigration without racism? Certainly it's possible, but they haven't. These aren't randos online, these are the face of the republican party and the future president. Sure, you can find dumb liberals. But does Kamala use slurs or question how black someone is? No. That's the difference. The example republicans have is a very poor one. > He talks about some women like they're dogs, because they stabbed him in the back Okay? This changes nothing. If your boss is rude to you and you call her a whore, you're getting fired. End of, have a nice chat with HR. This is what conservatives don't understand. You don't get a free pass to say whatever vile shit you like just because you think it's justified. That's why you get "censored".
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  >How is this pragmatic? In all my real-world experience, money trumps all. It's trivial to pay religious people to say things they don't really believe. Pastors do it all the time, with no pressure from others. The original argument was about forcing someone to make a cake that offends their religious beliefs, and you're bringing in cases of people voluntarily saying things for money. Again, nobody should be able to compel you to do an act of speech (for money or otherwise) under some pretense of civil rights or their own free speech. >If you look at the democratic candidates, they were very well spoken and respectful. IMO, to their detriment. They should've been more rude, and that cost them from a populist perspective. You mean like when they called Trump's supporters "garbage", "Nazi", "racist", "Russian spies", "insurrectionists", and called for violence and cancel culture against them, etc.? Being rude to even moderate people is what really cost the left from a populist perspective. I had a girlfriend break up with me because she suspected I might be a Trump supporter, despite me insisting the opposite (which was true at the time). A lot of people are sick of being demonized because they're normal and not down with "trans children" or whatever other insane ideology the left has taken up. The left routinely applies every nasty label to their critics. Got a problem with high inflation caused by current administration policies? What are you, a Trump supporter? Then you must necessarily be every -ist and -phobe they can think of, and many of them will hate your guts from then on. Have you been censored for saying completely normal things online? For valuing second amendment rights? For wanting your kids to not be indoctrinated into various ideologies in school? Oh you must be a Trump supporter, and you deserve everything you got coming for that. This is how these "polite" leftists act. These people need to learn a lesson, not to mess with people like that. >For example, can they address immigration without racism? Certainly it's possible, but they haven't. The Democrats are the ones bringing race into this and denying that there is even a problem. They desperately want to flood the country with migrants because they think it favors their party, and also because various billionaires want us distracted from what they are doing to our government. >But does Kamala use slurs or question how black someone is? She denied being black for years, then flipped the script. They even changed the way her name was pronounced to make her sound more "black". Trump said very politely that he did not care about her race, he cared about lying. What more do you want. I've never heard him use a slur against any race. Liberals of all standing often call him a Nazi. What kind of example does that set? >This changes nothing. If your boss is rude to you and you call her a whore, you're getting fired. End of, have a nice chat with HR. This is what conservatives don't understand. No, conservatives understand very well and usually have to deny being conservative. Many have been fired or blocked from promotion for espousing even moderate conservative ideas politely. Leftists haven't been afraid of that kind of crap in at least 20 years, in my opinion. I remember when they were all on board with pretending to be Christian to get by, and I don't want to go back to that. I'm not talking about merely being censored for rude comments. Again, the constitution protects rude speech, so that is irrelevant to censorship. So-called "misinformation" has been routinely censored on social media. We cannot have a free society when you can't do simple stuff like sharing news stories about presidential candidates or anything else of public interest online. Wanna know why some Republicans are so angry and rude? Because moralizing lunatics have been attacking them for years! I don't want our political discourse to be lowered any more, but the maniacs who want to censor everybody have to be dealt with swiftly and soundly.