7 ms·

> ...but it will make life easier for people with congestion I haven't purchased pseudeophedrine, but my understanding was that you just walked up to the count

by jjice 2y ago

> ...but it will make life easier for people with congestion I haven't purchased pseudeophedrine, but my understanding was that you just walked up to the counter and had to sign your name at the pharmacy. Is that not the case? Doesn't seem like a big pain if that's the case.

jcpham2 2y ago
You can can do this or your doctor can write you a prescription. I've never stopped using pseudoephedrine and depending on how congested I am sometimes it's the little red 4 hour pills or sometimes it's the big monster 12 hour version - but your doctor can write a generic prescription for pseudoephedrine and the quantity and amount and you can buy a box that way via cash or insurance too.
Zak 2y ago
It means you have to go to the pharmacy when it's open. That's a significant hurdle if you're sick, especially if you have something contagious and you're trying not to expose people to it, or if you work weird hours, or if you don't have reliable transportation, or if you're the primary caregiver for young children, etc.... It also means you can't get it delivered, can't stock up, might have trouble sending someone else to get it, etc.... It's a big pain for some people, and particularly for people who already have a harder life than average.
ultrarunner 2y ago
GP said: > Some people stopped buying pseudoephedrine entirely, either because they were offended by these rules or because they were afraid that they could wrongly be implicated in meth investigations if they appeared to buy it too often. This has actually happened [0], and I seem to remember more instances (at least when the law was first passed). I know I have also gone to buy it in a headache-induced fog and found that I've forgotten my ID, and on at least one occasion the national drug whatever system was down and they refused to sell it. Because it has to be run through the specific national database, it has to be run through one department and I have been unable to purchase because that department has closed for the day. These are just what comes to mind when I think about purchasing pseudoephedrine over the years; it's just generally become a pain to get. It makes me wonder if it'd be quicker and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine. [0] https://reason.com/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f/ https://reason.com/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f...
- tptacek 2y ago
  That happened 15 years ago, just a couple years after the policy is created. A more compelling example of a spurious prosecution would be one more recent, say, after 2016. We can probably find some! The last time people looked, we found a pretty interesting story.
- Lammy 2y ago
  > It makes me wonder if it'd be quicker and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine. Relevant: “A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine from Meth” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33444852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33444852 https://maggiemcneill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/synthesizing-pseudoephedrine-from-meth.pdf https://maggiemcneill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/synthes...
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    Just crazy, isn't it? Nothing could be better proof that drug laws are both ill conceived and ineffective than when otherwise lawful people are forced to consider converting easily available but highly illicit meth into a medicine that's much needed by millions because it's essentially unavailable through stupidity. If aliens were to visit they'd likely bypass contact on grounds that the planet's inhabitants are low-IQ nut cases.
- phil21 2y ago
  It's also out of stock now a lot more than before. Especially in larger (read: cheaper per dose) boxes. I assume but have not confirmed this is simply done by overworked pharmacy staff not re-ordering as often as they otherwise would to avoid the extra workload induced by having to run your ID through the database/etc. I've talked to pharmacy techs that do this for other drugs that induce extra workload at national chains, so I don't see why this wouldn't hold true here as well.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  "…and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine." Damn stupid isn't it? I'd be funny if it weren't serious. What's more most of these sympathomimetic amines are both simple organic molecules, and in numbers/types they're a dime-a-dozen so to speak—there are hundreds of them. Any number of which can be altered or 'metamorphosed' into others that have different physiological and psychological effects by almost any competent chemist. I'm certainly not advocating the use of meth but it's clear to me that the regulations that control the distribution and use of these amines are not working. Essentially, all these brute-force/unsophisticated laws have done is to inconvenience legitimate users and have drug barons streamline the production of more efficient precursors such as phenylacetone (P2P). We really do need a better way of approaching the problem. For instance, many drug users turn to illicit amines and other street drugs to overcome medical and psychological problems. It would make sense to have these people identified and then be treated by the health system before they turn to the street to 'help' them. Moreover, I'd reckon it'd be much cheaper than the millions now spent on enforcement. Trouble is moral panic and an almost complete lack of understanding by both lawmakers and law enforcement of the problem and its underlying causes is significantly impeding progress.
wormius 2y ago
It's still a pain in the ass you can't just go to the gas station and get some, etc... There shouldn't be a need to go to a pharmacy for what should be an over the counter drug that's far more effective than synephrine ever was. The difference between the 2 is night and day, probably because one actually works and the other maybe kinda sorta barely does.
devilbunny 2y ago
Depends on the state; at least some have made it prescription-only. It's much less convenient than going to the nearest 24-hour store and grabbing it off the shelf. And I'm a doctor married to a doctor; I don't have to get an appointment to get a prescription for a non-scheduled drug, but I do have to go during pharmacy hours and wait to pick it up.
standardUser 2y ago
It's a huge pain if the pharmacy is closed or has a long line. A pointless, purposeless pain. Another sacrifice the the always-ineffective yet never underfunded drug war gods.
fullspectrumdev 2y ago
The downstream effects in other countries are pretty annoying. Because of US restrictions on pseudo, bizarrely other countries have followed suit - it’s next to impossible to find a decongestant with pseudo here in Ireland, they will sell you the useless phenylephrine shit instead, and the packaging is almost indistinguishable unless you spend a while looking and arguing with a pharmacist who is convinced phenylephrine works just as good.
- beachy 2y ago
  > Because of US restrictions on pseudo, bizarrely other countries have followed suit Replace pseudo with cannabis and the statement remains true.
jrockway 2y ago
It's a big pain. The prescription line at my pharmacy is never shorter than 15 minutes. Thus the drug is $11/month but costs me $60 in time to wait in that line. Meanwhile, other drugs are just mailed to me, including my prescriptions. The prescription line is always fun. I remember some dude coughing on everyone, picking up his cell phone, "oh it was positive? great, I'm in line to get the medication" referring to COVID. In my opinion, the easiest place to get sick is waiting in the prescription line. Yet another tax on congestion sufferers. Having said all that, your doctor can write you a prescription and all the restrictions go away, including the ID check. It has always delayed my fills even further so we don't bother anymore. The most positive outcome from buying pseudoephedrine in line was being told "hey, your ID expires tomorrow" which was a good catch. I wasn't paying any attention to that. (I don't drive, so it's just a piece of plastic with my name. But necessary for paying taxes online in NYS.)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- woodruffw 2y ago
  This is a complete tangent, but FWIW: you can pay taxes in NY with an expired license. Source: I've been paying taxes in NY with a learner's permit that's been expired for well over a decade. Edit: I've also used said expired permit to buy pseudoephedrine. In my experience, they get frustrated and put random garbage into the tracking system when the card doesn't verify, demonstrating that it's all theater. It did take a while, though, so your point about this being a waste of time holds.
- Alupis 2y ago
  > Thus the drug is $11/month but costs me $60 in time to wait in that line In what reality? You were not being paid $60 to grocery shop or whatever else you might have done with that 15 minutes. Nor did it actually reduce your bank account by $60 to wait 15 minutes. If you applied this logic to everything in life, reading this very comment probably "cost" you a dozen bucks too. What a fun way to live? > Meanwhile, other drugs are just mailed to me, including my prescriptions. How often are your anticipating needing pseudoephedrine? For most people it's a once a year, at most, thing.
jjtheblunt 2y ago
have to produce a government id also
jmcclell 2y ago
I suffer from seasonal allergies that last anywhere from 2-4 months out of the year. During the height of allergy season, I take Claritin-D – a mixture of loratadine and pseudoephedrine. Claritin-D 24-hour caplets come in boxes of 10. You need 3 boxes to get a full month's supply. Each caplet has 240mg of pseudoephedrine – 2.4g per box. In my state, individuals can purchase up to 9g of pseduoephedrine per month, but only up to 3.6g per day. So, while I can technically purchase a full month's supply of Claritin-D, I can't buy more than one box at a time. These sorts of rules are minor inconveniences for an individual compared to the rest of life's challenges, but they exist in a special category of stupid that make them all the more frustrating. But, here's a thought: what if I had children who needed the same medication? Who's going without?
- withinrafael 2y ago
  Tangent; you reminded me about the Robitussin liquid (Dextromethorphan) in my pantry. It prescribes 20 mL doses but the bottle contains 118 mL total. Really grinds my gears this is legal.
jfk13 2y ago
Some years ago I was very frustrated, as a UK citizen visiting the States and suffering from congestion, that I was completely unable to buy it because I wasn't carrying suitable ID that the pharmacy would recognize.
cogman10 2y ago
I did not know that pseudeophendrine could be bought without a prescription until last year I think. I was deterred from buying it not because I fear putting my name down, but because I wrongly assumed I needed a prescription and thus a doctors visit to go purchase it. There aren't exactly signs that say "Hey, the good stuff is behind the counter and you don't need a prescription to get it".
diebeforei485 2y ago
You can't get it delivered using standard delivery apps (you can get phenylephrine, or medications containing it such as DayQuil, delivered using uber eats or doordash). That is an issue when you're sick.
buildsjets 2y ago
I was refused purchase because I had an out of state driver's license. Despite very visibly and audibly suffering from severe nasal congestion.
BurningFrog 2y ago
According to my friend who suffers when there is pollen/smoke in the air, it is typically sold out when he needs it, because other people breathe the same contaminated air. So he has to drive around to ~5 pharmacies to occasionally score a a box. He does try to stock up during low season, but it's hard to do.

by jjice 2y ago

jcpham2 2y ago

You can can do this or your doctor can write you a prescription. I've never stopped using pseudoephedrine and depending on how congested I am sometimes it's the little red 4 hour pills or sometimes it's the big monster 12 hour version - but your doctor can write a generic prescription for pseudoephedrine and the quantity and amount and you can buy a box that way via cash or insurance too.

Zak 2y ago

It means you have to go to the pharmacy when it's open. That's a significant hurdle if you're sick, especially if you have something contagious and you're trying not to expose people to it, or if you work weird hours, or if you don't have reliable transportation, or if you're the primary caregiver for young children, etc.... It also means you can't get it delivered, can't stock up, might have trouble sending someone else to get it, etc.... It's a big pain for some people, and particularly for people who already have a harder life than average.

ultrarunner 2y ago

GP said: > Some people stopped buying pseudoephedrine entirely, either because they were offended by these rules or because they were afraid that they could wrongly be implicated in meth investigations if they appeared to buy it too often. This has actually happened [0], and I seem to remember more instances (at least when the law was first passed). I know I have also gone to buy it in a headache-induced fog and found that I've forgotten my ID, and on at least one occasion the national drug whatever system was down and they refused to sell it. Because it has to be run through the specific national database, it has to be run through one department and I have been unable to purchase because that department has closed for the day. These are just what comes to mind when I think about purchasing pseudoephedrine over the years; it's just generally become a pain to get. It makes me wonder if it'd be quicker and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine. [0] https://reason.com/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f/ https://reason.com/2009/09/28/hoosier-grandmother-arrested-f...

tptacek 2y ago
That happened 15 years ago, just a couple years after the policy is created. A more compelling example of a spurious prosecution would be one more recent, say, after 2016. We can probably find some! The last time people looked, we found a pretty interesting story.
Lammy 2y ago
> It makes me wonder if it'd be quicker and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine. Relevant: “A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine from Meth” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33444852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33444852 https://maggiemcneill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/synthesizing-pseudoephedrine-from-meth.pdf https://maggiemcneill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/synthes...
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Just crazy, isn't it? Nothing could be better proof that drug laws are both ill conceived and ineffective than when otherwise lawful people are forced to consider converting easily available but highly illicit meth into a medicine that's much needed by millions because it's essentially unavailable through stupidity. If aliens were to visit they'd likely bypass contact on grounds that the planet's inhabitants are low-IQ nut cases.
phil21 2y ago
It's also out of stock now a lot more than before. Especially in larger (read: cheaper per dose) boxes. I assume but have not confirmed this is simply done by overworked pharmacy staff not re-ordering as often as they otherwise would to avoid the extra workload induced by having to run your ID through the database/etc. I've talked to pharmacy techs that do this for other drugs that induce extra workload at national chains, so I don't see why this wouldn't hold true here as well.
hilbert42 2y ago
"…and easier to just buy meth and reintroduce the hydroxyl group to get my cold medicine." Damn stupid isn't it? I'd be funny if it weren't serious. What's more most of these sympathomimetic amines are both simple organic molecules, and in numbers/types they're a dime-a-dozen so to speak—there are hundreds of them. Any number of which can be altered or 'metamorphosed' into others that have different physiological and psychological effects by almost any competent chemist. I'm certainly not advocating the use of meth but it's clear to me that the regulations that control the distribution and use of these amines are not working. Essentially, all these brute-force/unsophisticated laws have done is to inconvenience legitimate users and have drug barons streamline the production of more efficient precursors such as phenylacetone (P2P). We really do need a better way of approaching the problem. For instance, many drug users turn to illicit amines and other street drugs to overcome medical and psychological problems. It would make sense to have these people identified and then be treated by the health system before they turn to the street to 'help' them. Moreover, I'd reckon it'd be much cheaper than the millions now spent on enforcement. Trouble is moral panic and an almost complete lack of understanding by both lawmakers and law enforcement of the problem and its underlying causes is significantly impeding progress.

wormius 2y ago

It's still a pain in the ass you can't just go to the gas station and get some, etc... There shouldn't be a need to go to a pharmacy for what should be an over the counter drug that's far more effective than synephrine ever was. The difference between the 2 is night and day, probably because one actually works and the other maybe kinda sorta barely does.

devilbunny 2y ago

Depends on the state; at least some have made it prescription-only. It's much less convenient than going to the nearest 24-hour store and grabbing it off the shelf. And I'm a doctor married to a doctor; I don't have to get an appointment to get a prescription for a non-scheduled drug, but I do have to go during pharmacy hours and wait to pick it up.

standardUser 2y ago

It's a huge pain if the pharmacy is closed or has a long line. A pointless, purposeless pain. Another sacrifice the the always-ineffective yet never underfunded drug war gods.

fullspectrumdev 2y ago

The downstream effects in other countries are pretty annoying. Because of US restrictions on pseudo, bizarrely other countries have followed suit - it’s next to impossible to find a decongestant with pseudo here in Ireland, they will sell you the useless phenylephrine shit instead, and the packaging is almost indistinguishable unless you spend a while looking and arguing with a pharmacist who is convinced phenylephrine works just as good.

beachy 2y ago
> Because of US restrictions on pseudo, bizarrely other countries have followed suit Replace pseudo with cannabis and the statement remains true.

jrockway 2y ago

It's a big pain. The prescription line at my pharmacy is never shorter than 15 minutes. Thus the drug is $11/month but costs me $60 in time to wait in that line. Meanwhile, other drugs are just mailed to me, including my prescriptions. The prescription line is always fun. I remember some dude coughing on everyone, picking up his cell phone, "oh it was positive? great, I'm in line to get the medication" referring to COVID. In my opinion, the easiest place to get sick is waiting in the prescription line. Yet another tax on congestion sufferers. Having said all that, your doctor can write you a prescription and all the restrictions go away, including the ID check. It has always delayed my fills even further so we don't bother anymore. The most positive outcome from buying pseudoephedrine in line was being told "hey, your ID expires tomorrow" which was a good catch. I wasn't paying any attention to that. (I don't drive, so it's just a piece of plastic with my name. But necessary for paying taxes online in NYS.)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
woodruffw 2y ago
This is a complete tangent, but FWIW: you can pay taxes in NY with an expired license. Source: I've been paying taxes in NY with a learner's permit that's been expired for well over a decade. Edit: I've also used said expired permit to buy pseudoephedrine. In my experience, they get frustrated and put random garbage into the tracking system when the card doesn't verify, demonstrating that it's all theater. It did take a while, though, so your point about this being a waste of time holds.
Alupis 2y ago
> Thus the drug is $11/month but costs me $60 in time to wait in that line In what reality? You were not being paid $60 to grocery shop or whatever else you might have done with that 15 minutes. Nor did it actually reduce your bank account by $60 to wait 15 minutes. If you applied this logic to everything in life, reading this very comment probably "cost" you a dozen bucks too. What a fun way to live? > Meanwhile, other drugs are just mailed to me, including my prescriptions. How often are your anticipating needing pseudoephedrine? For most people it's a once a year, at most, thing.

jjtheblunt 2y ago

have to produce a government id also

jmcclell 2y ago

I suffer from seasonal allergies that last anywhere from 2-4 months out of the year. During the height of allergy season, I take Claritin-D – a mixture of loratadine and pseudoephedrine. Claritin-D 24-hour caplets come in boxes of 10. You need 3 boxes to get a full month's supply. Each caplet has 240mg of pseudoephedrine – 2.4g per box. In my state, individuals can purchase up to 9g of pseduoephedrine per month, but only up to 3.6g per day. So, while I can technically purchase a full month's supply of Claritin-D, I can't buy more than one box at a time. These sorts of rules are minor inconveniences for an individual compared to the rest of life's challenges, but they exist in a special category of stupid that make them all the more frustrating. But, here's a thought: what if I had children who needed the same medication? Who's going without?

withinrafael 2y ago
Tangent; you reminded me about the Robitussin liquid (Dextromethorphan) in my pantry. It prescribes 20 mL doses but the bottle contains 118 mL total. Really grinds my gears this is legal.

jfk13 2y ago

Some years ago I was very frustrated, as a UK citizen visiting the States and suffering from congestion, that I was completely unable to buy it because I wasn't carrying suitable ID that the pharmacy would recognize.

cogman10 2y ago

I did not know that pseudeophendrine could be bought without a prescription until last year I think. I was deterred from buying it not because I fear putting my name down, but because I wrongly assumed I needed a prescription and thus a doctors visit to go purchase it. There aren't exactly signs that say "Hey, the good stuff is behind the counter and you don't need a prescription to get it".

diebeforei485 2y ago

You can't get it delivered using standard delivery apps (you can get phenylephrine, or medications containing it such as DayQuil, delivered using uber eats or doordash). That is an issue when you're sick.

buildsjets 2y ago

I was refused purchase because I had an out of state driver's license. Despite very visibly and audibly suffering from severe nasal congestion.

BurningFrog 2y ago

According to my friend who suffers when there is pollen/smoke in the air, it is typically sold out when he needs it, because other people breathe the same contaminated air. So he has to drive around to ~5 pharmacies to occasionally score a a box. He does try to stock up during low season, but it's hard to do.