4 ms·

For my wife's 30th birthday our inlaws paid for a mini vacation in probably the nicest hotel we'll ever visit. We had a fancy dinner planned for the first nigh

by samspot 14y ago

For my wife's 30th birthday our inlaws paid for a mini vacation in probably the nicest hotel we'll ever visit. We had a fancy dinner planned for the first night and it had been a long time since my wife and I had gotten away from the kids. As we are pulling into the hotel the system for one of our largest clients goes down. I'm the only developer on this particular system (we're a small company) and we end up cancelling dinner so that I can work all evening to get the system back up. I still don't know if I made the right choice there. Yes it could have meant my job if I ignored the pager, but maybe I shouldn't be working for a place that has no respect for my other priorities.

Mz 14y ago
fwiw: I think you made the right choice. Work is sacrosanct. I hope the rest of the weekend with your wife was lovely, but losing your job likely would not have made her happy. -- former military wife who spent many a birthday alone
- cgopalan 14y ago
  Even at the cost of family and friends? I dont see work as sacrosanct. Its a section of your life devoted to help you sustain a living. Some people love it, some people dont. There are other parts of your life that need the same, if not more of an attention to develop your character as a whole.
  - Mz 14y ago
    I have been meaning to write a blog post about this. I think if friends and family don't understand that your work is a priority, they should be cut loose. There are times when you should try to prioritize family. I spoke to that in another comment in this same discussion. (And I was a homemaker and fulltime mom for two decades, so my family was my work.) But unless it is the kind of friend that would happily follow you through the gates of hell, they probably don't deserve more loyalty than your job. And if they are that kind of friend, you probably have a word for them other than "friend", like blood brother or at least best friend.
    - samspot 14y ago
      I appreciate your comments and the level of understanding you showed your husband. I think a lot of your perspective comes from the military life. In that career path refusing to do something or to show up can potentially ruin your career, and it is not as easy to change jobs. It's probably different for me because I could likely find a new job easily enough, so the consequences are not as severe as if I was back in the military.
      - Mz 14y ago
        From military life. From my dad growing up in The Great Depression. From my mom growing up in Germany during WWII and its aftermath. From devotedly raising two special needs sons and helping them overcome challenges that are supposed to be impossible to overcome. From getting well when that is supposedly impossible. I have yet to figure out how to make enough money from the things I consider my life's work. But I do think it is sacred, paid or not. Sorry if no one here understands that. Have a good day.
        samspot 14y ago
        I get it and I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm sorry that others here were not very nice today. I'm sure the work you are doing has real meaning and that is why it is important to you. At my job it just means someone gets a little more or less money. I appreciate your insight on the situation I've faced at my job. I obviously took the path you suggested since I'm still here :).
        Mz 14y ago
        No big. I suddenly have a hugely negative bank balace. My bank is closed, so I can't even address the issue. Makes this bullshit conversation pale in comparison. But thank you for your kindness.
    - cgopalan 14y ago
      I don't think it has anything to do with your family's attitude towards your work (although I do agree if they put their interests before your priorities they shouldn't be given more importance). Family/friends could be more important than work to someone who derives more satisfaction from them. And in your comment, you seem to imply that a job automatically deserves loyalty (in this age where companies can let you go in the drop of a hat?). If you see a job as "just another activity one does", no more no less, (doesn't mean the person doesn't give their best, and not demeaning a job here) in the path to overall growth, and has the same importance just like perfecting a hobby in your leisure, you develop a different attitude to it. My whole point is that work is not sacrosanct. It has no special place. There is nothing in it by its very nature that makes it right to put it above all else. There are other activities one does throughout the day, or maybe every so often, that is more important or needs to be prioritized, IF one feels that way.
- snowwrestler 14y ago
  And who is now seemingly divorced and homeless.
  - Mz 14y ago
    Yes. My divorce was amicable and occurred to save my life. I went homeless by choice as the only hope I have of resolving health problems the world says cannot be solved. But thank you for the gratuitous ad hominem which appears completely irrelevant to this discussion.
    - snowwrestler 14y ago
      I'm sorry, I probably worded that unnecessarily harshly. My point is that while you obviously feel strongly that you have chosen the correct path for your life, you are not an objective observer. I have come to realize that my thoughts on commitment and work--which were strongly like yours--were primarily a coping mechanism for a lifestyle that was not good for me. Edit to add: This is the message of the "top 5 regrets" post linked in the HBR article: the decisions we make and defend during life might not look so great as greater perspective is gained.
      - Mz 14y ago
        Then I will suggest you might be projecting. My work saved my life. I don't regret my devotion to either my sons or my ex husband. I consider myself a success in life, something I wrote about recently elsewhere and will be happy to share the link to if you care to see it.
        snowwrestler 14y ago
        Of course you don't regret your devotion to your family. But what you've actually written in this thread is a defense of prioritizing work over family. So which is it?
        Mz 14y ago
snorkel 14y ago
You have to set boundaries and expectations, so before leaving on break tell the boss "I will not be online this weekend at all no matter what. Period. Have a nice weekend." You don't have to worry about being fired for that because 1) boundaries are healthy and 2) they obviously can't operate without you so they wouldn't dare fire you for having a personal life. Even worse, the more of yourself you give 24/7 to the business, the more the boss expects that of you, and gets disappointed when you slack down to 23/7. Establish firmly that you can give 110% during business hours but also you have a personal life that doesn't belong to the business. If the business can't operate continuously without you then the boss either needs to invest in more staff or prepare to suffer the consequences. It's not your fault and don't let anyone guilt you into working 24/7 because they're not investing in enough staff and infrastructure for true 24/7 coverage. So customers be damned? Perhaps, but that was your boss's decision when they failed to hire a full staff, not your fault. What if you are the boss and owner, is it still customers be damned? What's the point of having the freedom of being your own boss if you don't use that freedom? So sometimes you say "no" to customers and partners, they are adults, they will get over it. Your job is not your life. Believe it and live it.

by samspot 14y ago

Mz 14y ago

fwiw: I think you made the right choice. Work is sacrosanct. I hope the rest of the weekend with your wife was lovely, but losing your job likely would not have made her happy. -- former military wife who spent many a birthday alone

cgopalan 14y ago
Even at the cost of family and friends? I dont see work as sacrosanct. Its a section of your life devoted to help you sustain a living. Some people love it, some people dont. There are other parts of your life that need the same, if not more of an attention to develop your character as a whole.
- Mz 14y ago
  I have been meaning to write a blog post about this. I think if friends and family don't understand that your work is a priority, they should be cut loose. There are times when you should try to prioritize family. I spoke to that in another comment in this same discussion. (And I was a homemaker and fulltime mom for two decades, so my family was my work.) But unless it is the kind of friend that would happily follow you through the gates of hell, they probably don't deserve more loyalty than your job. And if they are that kind of friend, you probably have a word for them other than "friend", like blood brother or at least best friend.
  - samspot 14y ago
    I appreciate your comments and the level of understanding you showed your husband. I think a lot of your perspective comes from the military life. In that career path refusing to do something or to show up can potentially ruin your career, and it is not as easy to change jobs. It's probably different for me because I could likely find a new job easily enough, so the consequences are not as severe as if I was back in the military.
    - Mz 14y ago
      From military life. From my dad growing up in The Great Depression. From my mom growing up in Germany during WWII and its aftermath. From devotedly raising two special needs sons and helping them overcome challenges that are supposed to be impossible to overcome. From getting well when that is supposedly impossible. I have yet to figure out how to make enough money from the things I consider my life's work. But I do think it is sacred, paid or not. Sorry if no one here understands that. Have a good day.
      - samspot 14y ago
        I get it and I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm sorry that others here were not very nice today. I'm sure the work you are doing has real meaning and that is why it is important to you. At my job it just means someone gets a little more or less money. I appreciate your insight on the situation I've faced at my job. I obviously took the path you suggested since I'm still here :).
        Mz 14y ago
        No big. I suddenly have a hugely negative bank balace. My bank is closed, so I can't even address the issue. Makes this bullshit conversation pale in comparison. But thank you for your kindness.
  - cgopalan 14y ago
    I don't think it has anything to do with your family's attitude towards your work (although I do agree if they put their interests before your priorities they shouldn't be given more importance). Family/friends could be more important than work to someone who derives more satisfaction from them. And in your comment, you seem to imply that a job automatically deserves loyalty (in this age where companies can let you go in the drop of a hat?). If you see a job as "just another activity one does", no more no less, (doesn't mean the person doesn't give their best, and not demeaning a job here) in the path to overall growth, and has the same importance just like perfecting a hobby in your leisure, you develop a different attitude to it. My whole point is that work is not sacrosanct. It has no special place. There is nothing in it by its very nature that makes it right to put it above all else. There are other activities one does throughout the day, or maybe every so often, that is more important or needs to be prioritized, IF one feels that way.
snowwrestler 14y ago
And who is now seemingly divorced and homeless.
- Mz 14y ago
  Yes. My divorce was amicable and occurred to save my life. I went homeless by choice as the only hope I have of resolving health problems the world says cannot be solved. But thank you for the gratuitous ad hominem which appears completely irrelevant to this discussion.
  - snowwrestler 14y ago
    I'm sorry, I probably worded that unnecessarily harshly. My point is that while you obviously feel strongly that you have chosen the correct path for your life, you are not an objective observer. I have come to realize that my thoughts on commitment and work--which were strongly like yours--were primarily a coping mechanism for a lifestyle that was not good for me. Edit to add: This is the message of the "top 5 regrets" post linked in the HBR article: the decisions we make and defend during life might not look so great as greater perspective is gained.
    - Mz 14y ago
      Then I will suggest you might be projecting. My work saved my life. I don't regret my devotion to either my sons or my ex husband. I consider myself a success in life, something I wrote about recently elsewhere and will be happy to share the link to if you care to see it.
      - snowwrestler 14y ago
        Of course you don't regret your devotion to your family. But what you've actually written in this thread is a defense of prioritizing work over family. So which is it?
        Mz 14y ago

snorkel 14y ago

You have to set boundaries and expectations, so before leaving on break tell the boss "I will not be online this weekend at all no matter what. Period. Have a nice weekend." You don't have to worry about being fired for that because 1) boundaries are healthy and 2) they obviously can't operate without you so they wouldn't dare fire you for having a personal life. Even worse, the more of yourself you give 24/7 to the business, the more the boss expects that of you, and gets disappointed when you slack down to 23/7. Establish firmly that you can give 110% during business hours but also you have a personal life that doesn't belong to the business. If the business can't operate continuously without you then the boss either needs to invest in more staff or prepare to suffer the consequences. It's not your fault and don't let anyone guilt you into working 24/7 because they're not investing in enough staff and infrastructure for true 24/7 coverage. So customers be damned? Perhaps, but that was your boss's decision when they failed to hire a full staff, not your fault. What if you are the boss and owner, is it still customers be damned? What's the point of having the freedom of being your own boss if you don't use that freedom? So sometimes you say "no" to customers and partners, they are adults, they will get over it. Your job is not your life. Believe it and live it.