4 ms·

You don't become a $3tn company by respecting and liberating users.

robertlagrant 2y ago
You do it by providing the best choice for users over decades. Or if you're an actual lock-in firm like MS, you do it by embedding yourself in every government department and company and school, so people go from cradle to grave using your products.
- zdw 2y ago
  MS's main lock in is the MS Office file formats (the entire "open" standards process around this was co-opted and destroyed), and then the predatory bundling/extension (browsers, email, Teams) to knock out competitors. Windows isn't the crown jewel - the real value is doc/xls/ppt that wrap people's data and bundling of everything into a MS license that marginalizes 3rd party entrants like Slack.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    I agree.
  - seec 2y ago
    Microsoft has always been about selling software, nothing else. Windows exists because they need to control a platform that is competitive enough to run their software and that cannot dictate their trajectory too much. They are very happy to sell their software and most platforms and since they don't make much money selling hardware, they will even sell you ways to run Windows anywhere for software that requires it. Microsoft has won because they were more competitive in bringing a desirable solution at a particular price, in other words they bring good value and even though some seem too ideologically tainted to understand it the whole world recognized it as such. The open standard Office formats work fine and Microsoft supports them just fine. The real reason they still win is because their software is generally just better to use. Many have used the competing open-source solution and end up paying for the Microsoft stuff because it is just a much worse experience that is not worth wasting your time for the very competitive pricing Microsoft offer. They win because they provide more value than free stuff at the price they offer, it is just as simple as that. You can see the bundling as predatory or you can see it as a competitive answer. Microsoft has seen that there was a market for some types of software, duplicated a competitive enough solution and sell it cheaper in order to bring more value, that's pretty much it. Even if they are legally prevented from bundling, I very much doubt it would change anything because they would just price the standalone solution in a competitive enough manner and would still win. They largely do that by the way, you can get plenty of their stuff in a standalone way. Even in the age of cloud/SASS subscription, Microsoft still sells standalone Office suite that you can very well use for years on end with zero need to upgrade (exactly what I do for my grandma, because she likes Publisher). And if the bundling legal precedent is set, their competitors like Apple and Google are in way more trouble because they abuse the bundling way more. It's hilarious the irrational hate Microsoft gets when they are objectively not that bad. Sure, they have some terrible behavior like any big corp, but by those standards, Apple is so much worse it is really stunning to see the difference in treatment.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      > It's hilarious the irrational hate Microsoft gets when they are objectively not that bad. There's no hate going on, irrational or otherwise. They have been really bad, and Teams vs Slack is a good example of how they are still bad in some instances. Not illegal bad, although maybe that, but just bad for competition, kept in place not by evergreen product quality (unlike Apple) but by 100 million IT departments all with mouse-only skills who couldn't choose anything but Microsoft without putting themselves out of a job.
oneplane 2y ago
Fun fact: TCG OPTAL isn't a $3tn company and they also don't respect or liberate users. So while both things can be true, both things are also irrelevant to the discussion.

You do it by providing the best choice for users over decades. Or if you're an actual lock-in firm like MS, you do it by embedding yourself in every government department and company and school, so people go from cradle to grave using your products.

zdw 2y ago
MS's main lock in is the MS Office file formats (the entire "open" standards process around this was co-opted and destroyed), and then the predatory bundling/extension (browsers, email, Teams) to knock out competitors. Windows isn't the crown jewel - the real value is doc/xls/ppt that wrap people's data and bundling of everything into a MS license that marginalizes 3rd party entrants like Slack.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I agree.
- seec 2y ago
  Microsoft has always been about selling software, nothing else. Windows exists because they need to control a platform that is competitive enough to run their software and that cannot dictate their trajectory too much. They are very happy to sell their software and most platforms and since they don't make much money selling hardware, they will even sell you ways to run Windows anywhere for software that requires it. Microsoft has won because they were more competitive in bringing a desirable solution at a particular price, in other words they bring good value and even though some seem too ideologically tainted to understand it the whole world recognized it as such. The open standard Office formats work fine and Microsoft supports them just fine. The real reason they still win is because their software is generally just better to use. Many have used the competing open-source solution and end up paying for the Microsoft stuff because it is just a much worse experience that is not worth wasting your time for the very competitive pricing Microsoft offer. They win because they provide more value than free stuff at the price they offer, it is just as simple as that. You can see the bundling as predatory or you can see it as a competitive answer. Microsoft has seen that there was a market for some types of software, duplicated a competitive enough solution and sell it cheaper in order to bring more value, that's pretty much it. Even if they are legally prevented from bundling, I very much doubt it would change anything because they would just price the standalone solution in a competitive enough manner and would still win. They largely do that by the way, you can get plenty of their stuff in a standalone way. Even in the age of cloud/SASS subscription, Microsoft still sells standalone Office suite that you can very well use for years on end with zero need to upgrade (exactly what I do for my grandma, because she likes Publisher). And if the bundling legal precedent is set, their competitors like Apple and Google are in way more trouble because they abuse the bundling way more. It's hilarious the irrational hate Microsoft gets when they are objectively not that bad. Sure, they have some terrible behavior like any big corp, but by those standards, Apple is so much worse it is really stunning to see the difference in treatment.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    > It's hilarious the irrational hate Microsoft gets when they are objectively not that bad. There's no hate going on, irrational or otherwise. They have been really bad, and Teams vs Slack is a good example of how they are still bad in some instances. Not illegal bad, although maybe that, but just bad for competition, kept in place not by evergreen product quality (unlike Apple) but by 100 million IT departments all with mouse-only skills who couldn't choose anything but Microsoft without putting themselves out of a job.

oneplane 2y ago

Fun fact: TCG OPTAL isn't a $3tn company and they also don't respect or liberate users. So while both things can be true, both things are also irrelevant to the discussion.