3 ms·

Android uses SELinux.

lapcat 2y ago
So? You can't compare Android to macOS. Compare Android to iOS, which had many more limitations built-in from the start than macOS. Incidentally, this is why iPad has never become the desktop replacement everyone claimed it would be. The hardware is plenty powerful, but it's always been very limited by the software. The greater freedom and capabilities of macOS is a huge advantage for desktop-class functionality.
- hollerith 2y ago
  I think I disagree. If iOS or Android added robust support for external monitors, external keyboards and pointing devices, I'd probably switch to it to get the increased resistance against attacks. If I could continue to run Emacs, e.g., in a VM like WSL2 or Crostini, I'd probably switch right away. If not, it would take me a year or 2 to transition to a replacement before I switch (and, no, that replacement would not need to be able to run software written in Emacs Lisp: I'd be happy to replace, rewrite or walk away from any functionality I currently get from code written in Emacs Lisp).
  - nextos 2y ago
    I use Linux, I would not switch to Android, but I agree the Linux userland should take sandboxing much more seriously. Things like Firejail show it can be done without much friction for the user. The current model, where executables can access any user file or resource, needs to go. We haven't learned anything from e.g. compromised pip packages that stole ssh keys.
  - 6SixTy 2y ago
    Android does have support for external keyboards and I know mice work but not the totality of pointing devices. There was a desktop experience with Samsung's DeX, complete with floating windows, but the experience was severely broken due to lackluster app support and clashing design priorities between touch and mouse. Thing is that Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience specifically due to the very uncontained Play Store, the prevalence of sideloading apps and rooting doesn't really help at all.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      >Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience Do you have an opinion on whether GrapheneOS is more secure than a standard desktop experience? >complete with floating windows The irony is that I don't even use floating windows on my (Gnome) Linux install: I maximize all the windows as if it were iPadOS or something.
    - tholdem 2y ago
      > Thing is that Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience specifically due to the very uncontained Play Store, the prevalence of sideloading apps and rooting doesn't really help at all. This is completely untrue. There is lot more to OS security than where software can be downloaded from. The point about root and sideloading is completely missing the point as those are even worse on desktop operating systems. On desktops you can basically run whatever from wherever and there is usually no sandboxing at all. On Android, there is a strict sandbox and you can't run whatever you want. Android is not rooted by default. Every app is strictly sandboxed on Android, point me to a desktop OS that has anything close to that. Every process is confined using SELinux policies on Android, which desktop OS has as strict MAC setup? Android has a proper, working verified boot, which desktop OS has something similar? Not to mention all the other hardening and exploit mitigations that are usually completely missing from standard desktop operating systems.
  - zie 2y ago
    > If iOS or Android added robust support for external monitors, external keyboards and pointing devices, I'd probably switch to it to get the increased resistance against attacks. They basically do now? On iOS I've never seen a BT keyboard not pair and I've never had problems with external monitors. Sometimes getting the right dongle so it plugs in is the bigger problem, but iPads have been USB-C for a while now, making it pretty much a non-issue, whenever I've tried. I haven't tried with Android in a while, but I'd be surprised if it's much different than iOS at this point in time.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      Can iPadOS display a UI tailored to the native resolution of the external monitor such that the user need never interact with the iPad's own display? Is using a mouse with Mobile Safari a pleasant experience if the user is doing many hours of interaction that way? (Actually, now that I think about it, iPadOS is too restrictive for me: I can't configure it in ways I would want to, but GrapheneOS doesn't have that problem what with being almost entirely open-source.)
      - zie 2y ago
        > Can iPadOS display a UI tailored to the native resolution of the external monitor such that the user need never interact with the iPad's own display? Well, since the iPad display is also the touchpad, you probably don't want to never interact with the iPad display. But essentially yes. Some TV's have a worse time than others. iPad's can't control what the TV can handle. In general, I've never had big problems, though I don't use it for 8hr work sessions. > Is using a mouse with Mobile Safari a pleasant experience if the user is doing many hours of interaction that way? If you are on macOS you can just scroll your mouse cursor over to the iPad and find out yourself. See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102459 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102459 Nobody can tell you if what they have implemented now, works well enough for you. I use it regularly, it works great. > (Actually, now that I think about it, iPadOS is too restrictive for me: I can't configure it in ways I would want to, but GrapheneOS doesn't have that problem what with being almost entirely open-source.) backing out already?! :) Seriously though, you are not alone. iPadOS is restrictive, that is either a bonus or a curse. It does let you focus more on tasks, but it limits how you are used to working in ways that might be hard to handle(especially at first). I agree about GrapheneOS. As for emacs, you can run it under iSH on iPadOS. I can't tell you how well it works, since I don't use emacs.

So? You can't compare Android to macOS. Compare Android to iOS, which had many more limitations built-in from the start than macOS. Incidentally, this is why iPad has never become the desktop replacement everyone claimed it would be. The hardware is plenty powerful, but it's always been very limited by the software. The greater freedom and capabilities of macOS is a huge advantage for desktop-class functionality.

hollerith 2y ago
I think I disagree. If iOS or Android added robust support for external monitors, external keyboards and pointing devices, I'd probably switch to it to get the increased resistance against attacks. If I could continue to run Emacs, e.g., in a VM like WSL2 or Crostini, I'd probably switch right away. If not, it would take me a year or 2 to transition to a replacement before I switch (and, no, that replacement would not need to be able to run software written in Emacs Lisp: I'd be happy to replace, rewrite or walk away from any functionality I currently get from code written in Emacs Lisp).
- nextos 2y ago
  I use Linux, I would not switch to Android, but I agree the Linux userland should take sandboxing much more seriously. Things like Firejail show it can be done without much friction for the user. The current model, where executables can access any user file or resource, needs to go. We haven't learned anything from e.g. compromised pip packages that stole ssh keys.
- 6SixTy 2y ago
  Android does have support for external keyboards and I know mice work but not the totality of pointing devices. There was a desktop experience with Samsung's DeX, complete with floating windows, but the experience was severely broken due to lackluster app support and clashing design priorities between touch and mouse. Thing is that Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience specifically due to the very uncontained Play Store, the prevalence of sideloading apps and rooting doesn't really help at all.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    >Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience Do you have an opinion on whether GrapheneOS is more secure than a standard desktop experience? >complete with floating windows The irony is that I don't even use floating windows on my (Gnome) Linux install: I maximize all the windows as if it were iPadOS or something.
  - tholdem 2y ago
    > Thing is that Android is probably no more secure than a standard desktop experience specifically due to the very uncontained Play Store, the prevalence of sideloading apps and rooting doesn't really help at all. This is completely untrue. There is lot more to OS security than where software can be downloaded from. The point about root and sideloading is completely missing the point as those are even worse on desktop operating systems. On desktops you can basically run whatever from wherever and there is usually no sandboxing at all. On Android, there is a strict sandbox and you can't run whatever you want. Android is not rooted by default. Every app is strictly sandboxed on Android, point me to a desktop OS that has anything close to that. Every process is confined using SELinux policies on Android, which desktop OS has as strict MAC setup? Android has a proper, working verified boot, which desktop OS has something similar? Not to mention all the other hardening and exploit mitigations that are usually completely missing from standard desktop operating systems.
- zie 2y ago
  > If iOS or Android added robust support for external monitors, external keyboards and pointing devices, I'd probably switch to it to get the increased resistance against attacks. They basically do now? On iOS I've never seen a BT keyboard not pair and I've never had problems with external monitors. Sometimes getting the right dongle so it plugs in is the bigger problem, but iPads have been USB-C for a while now, making it pretty much a non-issue, whenever I've tried. I haven't tried with Android in a while, but I'd be surprised if it's much different than iOS at this point in time.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Can iPadOS display a UI tailored to the native resolution of the external monitor such that the user need never interact with the iPad's own display? Is using a mouse with Mobile Safari a pleasant experience if the user is doing many hours of interaction that way? (Actually, now that I think about it, iPadOS is too restrictive for me: I can't configure it in ways I would want to, but GrapheneOS doesn't have that problem what with being almost entirely open-source.)
    - zie 2y ago
      > Can iPadOS display a UI tailored to the native resolution of the external monitor such that the user need never interact with the iPad's own display? Well, since the iPad display is also the touchpad, you probably don't want to never interact with the iPad display. But essentially yes. Some TV's have a worse time than others. iPad's can't control what the TV can handle. In general, I've never had big problems, though I don't use it for 8hr work sessions. > Is using a mouse with Mobile Safari a pleasant experience if the user is doing many hours of interaction that way? If you are on macOS you can just scroll your mouse cursor over to the iPad and find out yourself. See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102459 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102459 Nobody can tell you if what they have implemented now, works well enough for you. I use it regularly, it works great. > (Actually, now that I think about it, iPadOS is too restrictive for me: I can't configure it in ways I would want to, but GrapheneOS doesn't have that problem what with being almost entirely open-source.) backing out already?! :) Seriously though, you are not alone. iPadOS is restrictive, that is either a bonus or a curse. It does let you focus more on tasks, but it limits how you are used to working in ways that might be hard to handle(especially at first). I agree about GrapheneOS. As for emacs, you can run it under iSH on iPadOS. I can't tell you how well it works, since I don't use emacs.