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I think for the average person, looking too carefully at individual studies is failing to see the forest for the trees. Basically any time we do a study which

I think for the average person, looking too carefully at individual studies is failing to see the forest for the trees. Basically any time we do a study which asks "Is doing a bit more exercise better for you?" the answer is yes. Like doing a single walk around the block every week is better than doing none. Even five minutes of exercise is better than zero. But obviously these have much less positive impact than several hours of moderate to intense exercise weekly. There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about. So in terms of individual decision making things are really simple. Are you not fit? Do you feel bad? Are your basic markers for this looking bad (blood pressure, weight etc.)? Do more exercise. Do what you enjoy, do it safely, and do as much of it as you can as intensely as is reasonable, and the numbers will go in the right direction. This will put you way ahead of the average American in terms of fitness, it's not until a higher level that things really start to get technical.

ratmeadow 2y ago
While it's true that doing any amount more exercise is beneficial to the average person, they may not necessarily know/feel it. As we so often see super fit people in the media, it's easy to think we need to do hours of exercise daily for any benefit. Easy to then think "what's the point? I'll never be super fit" and do nothing. Recinforcing the narrative (including publication of studies) that no, even a small amount of execise is quite beneficial, is encouraging for the average person.
- f1shy 2y ago
  I think is exactly what the comment addresses (at least how I understood it). Just do whatever makes you happy, but move! Is not about being a model, it is about being heathier than moving less.
- ijidak 2y ago
  Shannon Sharpe works out at my gym. Huge guy. Former NFL tight-end. Still very fit. I notice he only does 1 hour at the gym and then he leaves. Granted, this is very low quality anecdata. But seeing how brief his workout is opened my eyes to the benefit of consistency over volume.
  - yourusername 2y ago
    Dorian Yates (former mister Olympia) claimed he trained 4 times a week for 45 minutes while preparing for the contest. But very intense training.
    - gloflo 2y ago
      He also sells training so there is reason to doubt anything he says about the topic.
      - hunter-gatherer 2y ago
        Eh... I disagree. I've not bought his training but I have been actively fit since I was in highschool and have bought training before. There is value is getting regimens and techniques from really experienced athletes. Edit: Also, I've been on a 4 day Bukgarian split before and had very good results. If you want proof there is a 30 minute routine that can kick your ass I recommend looking up Ryan Humiston's take on it.
      - toss1 2y ago
        Um, not really any reason to doubt as there's nothing wrong with selling what you find works Moreover, my experience in having formerly trained to compete at top international levels, studied exercise physiology and worked as a trainer, is very similar. The really short oversimplified version is: more intensity, shorter training, and more rest — it is the balance of exercise and rest that is key. And world-class results are definitely possible with relatively brief workouts; in fact, it's the best way to do it. The simplified concept is the muscles gain strength with stimulated rest. The training/exercise only provides the stimulus for the muscles to grow, the exercise does not actually grow the cells, it degrades or damages them. It is the repair process that strengthens the muscle. Too much exercise and too little rest (=repair+growth) just degrades the system; too much rest without exercise stimulus wastes potential growth time. Some is good, but more is not necessarily better. While there is no question that some exercise is almost always better than none, if you want peak results, intensity is the key. By intensity, we mean pushing the muscle to failure, so the end of each lifting set is not a predetermined number of reps, but the rep where you push as hard as possible and simply cannot complete the lift (after ~5-25 reps depending on focus on strength vs bulk, respectively). Do that one to three times for each muscle in the workout, then give it some days rest. A 45-min workout is sufficient to work the upper, mid, or lower body zone. Doing only one zone each day fits a max of six workouts per week, and monitoring vital signs (pulse/bp/temp) for overall stress will usually reduce that to around four weight workouts per week. This is what worked for me and the people I trained, and I'm not the least bit surprised to find it also worked for Dorian Yates (and no, I'm not selling anything related to exercise programs).
- renegade-otter 2y ago
  I do wonder how many people do not take care of the basics and instead go for anti-depressants and Ozempic. I get it if you tried everything, but how many do? When I stop compulsively eating and drinking, when I look for every opportunity to do something as an exercise, I snap out of my [self-diagnosed] depression and malaise in a few days, and feel great. The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business".
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    ? Doctors tell people to diet and exercise all the time. The problem is that the doctor has very little to offer other than to tell people to do that, and the vast majority of people will nod and continue doing whatever they were doing.
  - mr_mitm 2y ago
    This really downplays the impact of clinical depression. It's often not solved by exercising alone, and if you talk to a psychologist about this, the first thing they do is recommend exercising or at least goeing for walks as an immediate measure before potentially therapy or medication starts. When I went to a doctor complaining about low energy, literally the first question was about weight gain and exercising, so I'm not sure where your comment about the pills comes from.
    - renegade-otter 2y ago
      My comment comes from the seeming ease of procuring these drugs - with people going on Ozempic out of pure vanity.
      - toofy 2y ago
        you did end your comment with: > The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business" which makes it appear as even with your “self-diagnoses” you’re under the impression that doctors rarely ask about exercise and diet and then move forward from there. which is the exact opposite of what i’ve seen from a college roommate, a close friend, and an ex who saw multiple different doctors, and each of those doctors first insisted on: a) find a hobby, dive into it. and, b) exercise multiple times per week. and, c) get a nutritionist. and d) only after those things showed little results would they prescribe SSRIs or other long term drugs. i promise this isn’t coming down on you, i promise, but, we seem to have a massive trend of confidently wrong people implying they’re smarter than actual doctors or (just about any other subject it seems), they just guess what doctors do and don’t do. and even far more concerning is how often these confidently wrong people issue blanket advice to randoms online as if they’re at all qualified and as if they know any of the important intricate details of the randoms they’re advising. we desperately need to get back to a place where people can confidently say “i don’t know” again. we’re (including myself) too desperate to chime in even if we’re woefully ill equipped. maybe every secondary-university semester everyone should get a refresher session on the most basic ass socrates/plato: the smartest person is the one who knows, understands, and admits about how much they are ignorant.
f1shy 2y ago
Not only what you say is objectively truth, it's motivating! Just start moving your ass! Would only change "This will put you way ahead of the average American in terms of fitness, it's not until a higher level that things really start to get technical." striking out "American", just because it works everywhere.
throawayonthe 2y ago
[dead]
kd5bjo 2y ago
> There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about. Unfortunately, it's people at both ends of the fitness curve that have to be careful about increased exercise frequency/intensity. On the less-fit side, the primary concern is accumulating minor injuries that reduce capacity for exercise even further leading into a downward spiral.
- _xiaz 2y ago
  Thats why we recommend obese people to walk first, even if they think they would enjoy running.
- kelipso 2y ago
  Too much exercise is a problem that can happen to literally anyone. Not just due to injuries. Fatigue management is one main component. Saying that more exercise is always better is a completely false statement. Do not care if it sounds good or is meant to "help" people or whatever, it's completely false and can harm uninformed people.
  - browningstreet 2y ago
    This guy looked at longevity stats for runners. He recommends running a little, not a lot. 2012 TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
sn9 2y ago
Yeah people just need to focus on doing the basics right [0]. [0] https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorities-be-to-improve-my-health/ https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorit...
boomlinde 2y ago
> There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about. The paper suggest otherwise. Replacing ten minutes of your otherwise 11 hours of sedentary time with exercise will have less than twice the effect on blood pressure of replacing five minutes with exercise. That is diminishing returns.

ratmeadow 2y ago

While it's true that doing any amount more exercise is beneficial to the average person, they may not necessarily know/feel it. As we so often see super fit people in the media, it's easy to think we need to do hours of exercise daily for any benefit. Easy to then think "what's the point? I'll never be super fit" and do nothing. Recinforcing the narrative (including publication of studies) that no, even a small amount of execise is quite beneficial, is encouraging for the average person.

f1shy 2y ago
I think is exactly what the comment addresses (at least how I understood it). Just do whatever makes you happy, but move! Is not about being a model, it is about being heathier than moving less.
ijidak 2y ago
Shannon Sharpe works out at my gym. Huge guy. Former NFL tight-end. Still very fit. I notice he only does 1 hour at the gym and then he leaves. Granted, this is very low quality anecdata. But seeing how brief his workout is opened my eyes to the benefit of consistency over volume.
- yourusername 2y ago
  Dorian Yates (former mister Olympia) claimed he trained 4 times a week for 45 minutes while preparing for the contest. But very intense training.
  - gloflo 2y ago
    He also sells training so there is reason to doubt anything he says about the topic.
    - hunter-gatherer 2y ago
      Eh... I disagree. I've not bought his training but I have been actively fit since I was in highschool and have bought training before. There is value is getting regimens and techniques from really experienced athletes. Edit: Also, I've been on a 4 day Bukgarian split before and had very good results. If you want proof there is a 30 minute routine that can kick your ass I recommend looking up Ryan Humiston's take on it.
    - toss1 2y ago
      Um, not really any reason to doubt as there's nothing wrong with selling what you find works Moreover, my experience in having formerly trained to compete at top international levels, studied exercise physiology and worked as a trainer, is very similar. The really short oversimplified version is: more intensity, shorter training, and more rest — it is the balance of exercise and rest that is key. And world-class results are definitely possible with relatively brief workouts; in fact, it's the best way to do it. The simplified concept is the muscles gain strength with stimulated rest. The training/exercise only provides the stimulus for the muscles to grow, the exercise does not actually grow the cells, it degrades or damages them. It is the repair process that strengthens the muscle. Too much exercise and too little rest (=repair+growth) just degrades the system; too much rest without exercise stimulus wastes potential growth time. Some is good, but more is not necessarily better. While there is no question that some exercise is almost always better than none, if you want peak results, intensity is the key. By intensity, we mean pushing the muscle to failure, so the end of each lifting set is not a predetermined number of reps, but the rep where you push as hard as possible and simply cannot complete the lift (after ~5-25 reps depending on focus on strength vs bulk, respectively). Do that one to three times for each muscle in the workout, then give it some days rest. A 45-min workout is sufficient to work the upper, mid, or lower body zone. Doing only one zone each day fits a max of six workouts per week, and monitoring vital signs (pulse/bp/temp) for overall stress will usually reduce that to around four weight workouts per week. This is what worked for me and the people I trained, and I'm not the least bit surprised to find it also worked for Dorian Yates (and no, I'm not selling anything related to exercise programs).
renegade-otter 2y ago
I do wonder how many people do not take care of the basics and instead go for anti-depressants and Ozempic. I get it if you tried everything, but how many do? When I stop compulsively eating and drinking, when I look for every opportunity to do something as an exercise, I snap out of my [self-diagnosed] depression and malaise in a few days, and feel great. The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business".
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  ? Doctors tell people to diet and exercise all the time. The problem is that the doctor has very little to offer other than to tell people to do that, and the vast majority of people will nod and continue doing whatever they were doing.
- mr_mitm 2y ago
  This really downplays the impact of clinical depression. It's often not solved by exercising alone, and if you talk to a psychologist about this, the first thing they do is recommend exercising or at least goeing for walks as an immediate measure before potentially therapy or medication starts. When I went to a doctor complaining about low energy, literally the first question was about weight gain and exercising, so I'm not sure where your comment about the pills comes from.
  - renegade-otter 2y ago
    My comment comes from the seeming ease of procuring these drugs - with people going on Ozempic out of pure vanity.
    - toofy 2y ago
      you did end your comment with: > The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business" which makes it appear as even with your “self-diagnoses” you’re under the impression that doctors rarely ask about exercise and diet and then move forward from there. which is the exact opposite of what i’ve seen from a college roommate, a close friend, and an ex who saw multiple different doctors, and each of those doctors first insisted on: a) find a hobby, dive into it. and, b) exercise multiple times per week. and, c) get a nutritionist. and d) only after those things showed little results would they prescribe SSRIs or other long term drugs. i promise this isn’t coming down on you, i promise, but, we seem to have a massive trend of confidently wrong people implying they’re smarter than actual doctors or (just about any other subject it seems), they just guess what doctors do and don’t do. and even far more concerning is how often these confidently wrong people issue blanket advice to randoms online as if they’re at all qualified and as if they know any of the important intricate details of the randoms they’re advising. we desperately need to get back to a place where people can confidently say “i don’t know” again. we’re (including myself) too desperate to chime in even if we’re woefully ill equipped. maybe every secondary-university semester everyone should get a refresher session on the most basic ass socrates/plato: the smartest person is the one who knows, understands, and admits about how much they are ignorant.

f1shy 2y ago

Not only what you say is objectively truth, it's motivating! Just start moving your ass! Would only change "This will put you way ahead of the average American in terms of fitness, it's not until a higher level that things really start to get technical." striking out "American", just because it works everywhere.

throawayonthe 2y ago

[dead]

kd5bjo 2y ago

> There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about. Unfortunately, it's people at both ends of the fitness curve that have to be careful about increased exercise frequency/intensity. On the less-fit side, the primary concern is accumulating minor injuries that reduce capacity for exercise even further leading into a downward spiral.

_xiaz 2y ago
Thats why we recommend obese people to walk first, even if they think they would enjoy running.
kelipso 2y ago
Too much exercise is a problem that can happen to literally anyone. Not just due to injuries. Fatigue management is one main component. Saying that more exercise is always better is a completely false statement. Do not care if it sounds good or is meant to "help" people or whatever, it's completely false and can harm uninformed people.
- browningstreet 2y ago
  This guy looked at longevity stats for runners. He recommends running a little, not a lot. 2012 TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0

sn9 2y ago

Yeah people just need to focus on doing the basics right [0]. [0] https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorities-be-to-improve-my-health/ https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorit...

boomlinde 2y ago

> There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about. The paper suggest otherwise. Replacing ten minutes of your otherwise 11 hours of sedentary time with exercise will have less than twice the effect on blood pressure of replacing five minutes with exercise. That is diminishing returns.