4 ms·

There’s a similar facility called Iron Mountain in Boyers, PA that stores, among other things, millions of government records: https://www.pennlive.com/news/20

There’s a similar facility called Iron Mountain in Boyers, PA that stores, among other things, millions of government records: https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/01/inside-iron-mountain.html https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/01/inside-iron-mountain.h...

wlesieutre 2y ago
Also in PA, Wampum Underground where you can store your boat, RV, or other vehicles in their cave for the off season https://wampumunderground.com/vehicle-storage/ https://wampumunderground.com/vehicle-storage/
fnordpiglet 2y ago
Only 1.7m square foot though.
neilv 2y ago
> Resting in a former limestone mine, it’s one of the nation’s most secure data centers and storage facilities. Few people inside Pennsylvania and outside it know this place exists. That’s the way the owner, Iron Mountain, likes it. > “The reason people use this place is because we don’t talk about this place,” said Chris Miller, Iron Mountain’s infrastructure manager. The tone of that is unclear, while giving a tour to a journalist.
- rmellow 2y ago
  The person giving the tour knows security by obscurity is weak for actual security, but strong for marketing.
  - neilv 2y ago
    That could be, although I'd guess obscurity in this case might reduce the likelihood of random mentally ill people minor threats, and also reduce the likelihood of being the chosen target of some more capable terrorist threat. (Even random mentally ill people are likely to have access to firearms, and maybe heavy vehicles.) Before cloud got big, I used to have a personal physical server colocated at a network facility, in a nondescript commercial building that you had to know was there, and turn off the main street to get to, with no signage I could see. (Also, biometrics scanners, when those weren't consumer things, and a waiting room that seemed to securely lock in visitors, in view of guards.) I'd previously heard of non-government buildings without signage, for security reasons, so I figured that was it. Rather than not wanting to spend the money on a sign that would make it easier for customers to physically find, increase brand awareness, or raise their prominence in the minds of local officials before whom they might occasionally have business. And, over time, you hear of other non-government unmarked buildings that are arguably "sensitive", for one reason or another. The ones that personally come to mind, historically that type has been threatened before (by, e.g., people angry at a company that they blame for automating away jobs, people who saw a movie involving blowing up records of bank loans and think that will work in real life, animal rights activists who want to free lab animals (and didn't see that other movie), eco-terrorists, people who are are mentally ill and found something conveniently located to fixate on). Maybe also no need to invite protestors?
    - neuralRiot 2y ago
      >in a nondescript commercial building that you had to know was there. If I had to do it I’ll make it a boring unsuspecting commercial building with signage “storage R us” for example.
    - karlshea 2y ago
      I think you're right about obscurity preventing a lot of low-grade issues. There's an interesting building right in downtown Minneapolis that takes up an entire block that I'd passed several times a week for years without even noticing it—it's the operations center for Wells Fargo (and actually it just recently has been sold). Zero signage and very nondescript, but when I found out what it was some of the physical security around it started to become super obvious. Big bollard "planters" and protection from large vehicles, a lot of cameras, no real obvious lobby. This is the building, it's fascinating to check out the street view all the way around the block: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYKnA2Bs9gMQsSwo9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYKnA2Bs9gMQsSwo9
    - Gibbon1 2y ago
      Two things I remember. Once went to visit a Raytheon technical support guy in his office. He made a point that it was 'hard to find' and there 'were no signs'. And he was right. Drive to a building. Park. List of business but not Raytheon. Go through a door that looks like it should be locked. Down a hall to the end. Open a door that looks like a utility closet and there is their office. Company Policy. Old office in SF two floors were a banking operation. They weren't on the signage. And you'd get in the elevator with people that worked on those floors and they would stand silently despite obviously knowing each other. Double set of doors on those two floors.
    - andylynch 2y ago
      Dead on. Another good example is the London Stock Exchange; they have a really nice office downtown that is something of a magnet for protests, but I used to work around the corner from their data centre , and it was in a very scruffy , anonymous building with dirty windows, just an unusual number of cameras and stuff on the roof.
  - hunter2_ 2y ago
    > security by obscurity is weak for actual security There was a time when I believed this. But over the years, I've concluded that in many cases, that which is considered legitimate security is in fact rooted simply in ensuring that the attacker is lacking information, which is fairly synonymous with obscurity.
    - lmm 2y ago
      Secrecy is a core part of legitimate security. But mere obscurity is not secrecy. In a secure system design you know exactly which parts are secret and which are not.
      - hunter2_ 2y ago
        Yes, ideally this distinction can be made. But a piece of information you consider secret, if known by more than exactly one person, is merely obscure information.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Something doesn’t add up. I see Iron Mountain box trucks at least weekly, with PA tags. Also we use them for backups. Nothing about them is a secret. What a strange quote by the owner.
  - simonw 2y ago
    They're a huge company, with 24,000 employees and over 1,500 storage locations - the vast majority of which are warehouses above ground: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_(company)
- thejazzman 2y ago
  "Few know" yet they advertise it all over their trucks all over Pittsburgh?? lol blatant marketing BS
mjmsmith 2y ago
The Many Lives of Iron Mountain (New York) https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-many-lives-of-iron-mountain https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-many-lives-o...
wkat4242 2y ago
Sounds like Steel Mountain from Mr Robot, cool. In fact it sounds like the TV show facility was based on this, the 'have their own fire brigade' thing also created in the show.
- bityard 2y ago
  There's no "sounds like" about it, Iron Mountain has been around for much longer than that TV show and is very well known by anybody who has had to deal with archiving data for regulatory or contractual purposes.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Oh yeah I know but it sounds like the place in the TV show was likely inspired by Iron Mountain.
    - simtel20 2y ago
      Yes it definitely was. Once you look at the logos and the company it's an obvious nod to that fixture of business and IT in the region. https://mrrobot.fandom.com/wiki/Steel_Mountain https://mrrobot.fandom.com/wiki/Steel_Mountain
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Oh yeahhhh I didn't even notice that logo. Cool! I like it when shows give a nod to the real world. Especially Mr. Robot where so much attention was spent on details. It was really refreshing to not see hollywood hacking there (a "HACKING..." progress bar on a green screen :P ) I wonder if Evilcorp was also based on something. Edit: Ah I see it was Enron. Thanks for that link to the wiki, I didn't know it.

wlesieutre 2y ago

Also in PA, Wampum Underground where you can store your boat, RV, or other vehicles in their cave for the off season https://wampumunderground.com/vehicle-storage/ https://wampumunderground.com/vehicle-storage/

fnordpiglet 2y ago

Only 1.7m square foot though.

neilv 2y ago

> Resting in a former limestone mine, it’s one of the nation’s most secure data centers and storage facilities. Few people inside Pennsylvania and outside it know this place exists. That’s the way the owner, Iron Mountain, likes it. > “The reason people use this place is because we don’t talk about this place,” said Chris Miller, Iron Mountain’s infrastructure manager. The tone of that is unclear, while giving a tour to a journalist.

rmellow 2y ago
The person giving the tour knows security by obscurity is weak for actual security, but strong for marketing.
- neilv 2y ago
  That could be, although I'd guess obscurity in this case might reduce the likelihood of random mentally ill people minor threats, and also reduce the likelihood of being the chosen target of some more capable terrorist threat. (Even random mentally ill people are likely to have access to firearms, and maybe heavy vehicles.) Before cloud got big, I used to have a personal physical server colocated at a network facility, in a nondescript commercial building that you had to know was there, and turn off the main street to get to, with no signage I could see. (Also, biometrics scanners, when those weren't consumer things, and a waiting room that seemed to securely lock in visitors, in view of guards.) I'd previously heard of non-government buildings without signage, for security reasons, so I figured that was it. Rather than not wanting to spend the money on a sign that would make it easier for customers to physically find, increase brand awareness, or raise their prominence in the minds of local officials before whom they might occasionally have business. And, over time, you hear of other non-government unmarked buildings that are arguably "sensitive", for one reason or another. The ones that personally come to mind, historically that type has been threatened before (by, e.g., people angry at a company that they blame for automating away jobs, people who saw a movie involving blowing up records of bank loans and think that will work in real life, animal rights activists who want to free lab animals (and didn't see that other movie), eco-terrorists, people who are are mentally ill and found something conveniently located to fixate on). Maybe also no need to invite protestors?
  - neuralRiot 2y ago
    >in a nondescript commercial building that you had to know was there. If I had to do it I’ll make it a boring unsuspecting commercial building with signage “storage R us” for example.
  - karlshea 2y ago
    I think you're right about obscurity preventing a lot of low-grade issues. There's an interesting building right in downtown Minneapolis that takes up an entire block that I'd passed several times a week for years without even noticing it—it's the operations center for Wells Fargo (and actually it just recently has been sold). Zero signage and very nondescript, but when I found out what it was some of the physical security around it started to become super obvious. Big bollard "planters" and protection from large vehicles, a lot of cameras, no real obvious lobby. This is the building, it's fascinating to check out the street view all the way around the block: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYKnA2Bs9gMQsSwo9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYKnA2Bs9gMQsSwo9
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    Two things I remember. Once went to visit a Raytheon technical support guy in his office. He made a point that it was 'hard to find' and there 'were no signs'. And he was right. Drive to a building. Park. List of business but not Raytheon. Go through a door that looks like it should be locked. Down a hall to the end. Open a door that looks like a utility closet and there is their office. Company Policy. Old office in SF two floors were a banking operation. They weren't on the signage. And you'd get in the elevator with people that worked on those floors and they would stand silently despite obviously knowing each other. Double set of doors on those two floors.
  - andylynch 2y ago
    Dead on. Another good example is the London Stock Exchange; they have a really nice office downtown that is something of a magnet for protests, but I used to work around the corner from their data centre , and it was in a very scruffy , anonymous building with dirty windows, just an unusual number of cameras and stuff on the roof.
- hunter2_ 2y ago
  > security by obscurity is weak for actual security There was a time when I believed this. But over the years, I've concluded that in many cases, that which is considered legitimate security is in fact rooted simply in ensuring that the attacker is lacking information, which is fairly synonymous with obscurity.
  - lmm 2y ago
    Secrecy is a core part of legitimate security. But mere obscurity is not secrecy. In a secure system design you know exactly which parts are secret and which are not.
    - hunter2_ 2y ago
      Yes, ideally this distinction can be made. But a piece of information you consider secret, if known by more than exactly one person, is merely obscure information.
dgfitz 2y ago
Something doesn’t add up. I see Iron Mountain box trucks at least weekly, with PA tags. Also we use them for backups. Nothing about them is a secret. What a strange quote by the owner.
- simonw 2y ago
  They're a huge company, with 24,000 employees and over 1,500 storage locations - the vast majority of which are warehouses above ground: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_(company)
thejazzman 2y ago
"Few know" yet they advertise it all over their trucks all over Pittsburgh?? lol blatant marketing BS

mjmsmith 2y ago

The Many Lives of Iron Mountain (New York) https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-many-lives-of-iron-mountain https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-many-lives-o...

wkat4242 2y ago

Sounds like Steel Mountain from Mr Robot, cool. In fact it sounds like the TV show facility was based on this, the 'have their own fire brigade' thing also created in the show.

bityard 2y ago
There's no "sounds like" about it, Iron Mountain has been around for much longer than that TV show and is very well known by anybody who has had to deal with archiving data for regulatory or contractual purposes.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Oh yeah I know but it sounds like the place in the TV show was likely inspired by Iron Mountain.
  - simtel20 2y ago
    Yes it definitely was. Once you look at the logos and the company it's an obvious nod to that fixture of business and IT in the region. https://mrrobot.fandom.com/wiki/Steel_Mountain https://mrrobot.fandom.com/wiki/Steel_Mountain
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Oh yeahhhh I didn't even notice that logo. Cool! I like it when shows give a nod to the real world. Especially Mr. Robot where so much attention was spent on details. It was really refreshing to not see hollywood hacking there (a "HACKING..." progress bar on a green screen :P ) I wonder if Evilcorp was also based on something. Edit: Ah I see it was Enron. Thanks for that link to the wiki, I didn't know it.