4 ms·

> Anyway I'll never use Steam to buy a game anymore anyway, because you're only really buying a license to rent a game. I wonder if you misinterpreted the arti

> Anyway I'll never use Steam to buy a game anymore anyway, because you're only really buying a license to rent a game. I wonder if you misinterpreted the article? The games are not being taken away from people who purchased them. They will simply no longer be offered for sale. I know the DRM exists, but to the extent that you trust the word of Steam and Gabe Newell, they have said they will release a patch undoing all Steam DRM if Steam ever goes out of business.

vikingerik 2y ago
It's easy for them to have that intention, but then the realities of operating from bankruptcy court or receivership or being assimilated by Microsoft or Sony could be much different. I choose to only buy stuff for like $8 and under where I can expect to get my money's worth of gameplay in a short time frame and so not have to worry about any long term sunsetting. That's a reasonable middle ground between fully trusting the platform or fully abhorring it.
somat 2y ago
Honestly I doubt that, and not because I distrust steam and gabe newell, in my books steam is one of the good guys, in an industry filled with nickle and dime rent seeking, steam provides a reliable, unobtrusive service. Personally I think their margin is grossly high. And I too hate how many of my games are locked up depending on the benevolence of a corporation. But steam has thus far proved to be a very useful service, mainly by not fucking up. I just don't think it could happen because when your business is going down in flames, the last thing on your mind is giving away the keys to the kingdom. The normal death spiral is. The business is unable to make a profit anymore and will have to be closed down. however it still has a reputation. somebody will buy the business with the expectation they will be able to make the changes needed to make a profit. these changes are vile, trying to extract any money they can from the corpse. it then gets sold to the next sucker. who repeats the whole repugnant farce. It is almost never a clean death.
amiga386 2y ago
If the developer offers the game on itch.io, buy it from there. If the developer offers the game on GOG, buy it from there. Otherwise, check if there's currently a crack for the steamworks version of the game. If so, buy it on Steam. Don't actually download or use the crack; just check it exists before buying. Otherwise, don't buy the game.
- opan 2y ago
  The recent indie release, Kitsune Tails, was available on Steam and Itch, but the creator actually made clear on social media that Steam reviews were really important and that they were only counted properly if the game was bought on Steam and not added there via a key. They were really pushing to hit Overwhelmingly Positive shortly after release, I don't know if that was the only reason, though. Also in your advice where you recommend verifying a crack exists before buying on Steam, isn't it similar to see if a GOG (drm-free) version exists that you could fetch at no cost later if needed, and then buy on Steam?
  - amiga386 2y ago
    If the game developer wants to follow a particular marketing plan, e.g. they've discovered they get more sales when there's a lot of positive Steam reviews, then of course you can help with that. If retweets, or Reddit posts, or Facebook likes or lets-play Twitch streams, or whatever else sells copies, and you're in a position to do that... However, when buying on Steam, you need to watch out for your own interests too. Will you still be able to play this game in 20 years? Checking there is a crack is your insurance policy. If you can buy it DRM-free on itch.io or GOG, do that instead. Steam store pages will list if there is any _third-party_ DRM, but won't list if the developer is using Steamworks DRM, so generally you have to assume it is (unless the developer assures otherwise, or it's on https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g... )
- shantara 2y ago
  I can't recall any cases where a game delisted from Steam was removed from the libraries of people who already bought them. Meanwhile, Oxenfree was removed from itch.io, including making it unavailable for download even for those who have purchased the game. This is unprecedented as far as I know. Presumably, itch unlike Steam doesn't have the leverage or lawyers on staff to enforce what's a blatant violation both the consumer rights and itch.io's own terms of service. https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/9/24239877/if-bought-oxenfree-on-itch-io-you-wont-be-able-to-download-it-starting-next-month https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/9/24239877/if-bought-oxenfre...
tertle950 2y ago
The "license to rent a game" deal is a general grievance about Steam that is not related to the article. Also it is one that can be extended to many other services offering digital goods for """purchase""", like iTunes
0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
> I know the DRM exists, but to the extent that you trust the word of Steam and Gabe Newell, they have said they will release a patch undoing all Steam DRM if Steam ever goes out of business. I do not believe this was said by Gabe. It was also made years ago before Steam was the size it has become. At the time, Steam might have only been losing Valve first party titles.

vikingerik 2y ago

It's easy for them to have that intention, but then the realities of operating from bankruptcy court or receivership or being assimilated by Microsoft or Sony could be much different. I choose to only buy stuff for like $8 and under where I can expect to get my money's worth of gameplay in a short time frame and so not have to worry about any long term sunsetting. That's a reasonable middle ground between fully trusting the platform or fully abhorring it.

somat 2y ago

Honestly I doubt that, and not because I distrust steam and gabe newell, in my books steam is one of the good guys, in an industry filled with nickle and dime rent seeking, steam provides a reliable, unobtrusive service. Personally I think their margin is grossly high. And I too hate how many of my games are locked up depending on the benevolence of a corporation. But steam has thus far proved to be a very useful service, mainly by not fucking up. I just don't think it could happen because when your business is going down in flames, the last thing on your mind is giving away the keys to the kingdom. The normal death spiral is. The business is unable to make a profit anymore and will have to be closed down. however it still has a reputation. somebody will buy the business with the expectation they will be able to make the changes needed to make a profit. these changes are vile, trying to extract any money they can from the corpse. it then gets sold to the next sucker. who repeats the whole repugnant farce. It is almost never a clean death.

amiga386 2y ago

If the developer offers the game on itch.io, buy it from there. If the developer offers the game on GOG, buy it from there. Otherwise, check if there's currently a crack for the steamworks version of the game. If so, buy it on Steam. Don't actually download or use the crack; just check it exists before buying. Otherwise, don't buy the game.

opan 2y ago
The recent indie release, Kitsune Tails, was available on Steam and Itch, but the creator actually made clear on social media that Steam reviews were really important and that they were only counted properly if the game was bought on Steam and not added there via a key. They were really pushing to hit Overwhelmingly Positive shortly after release, I don't know if that was the only reason, though. Also in your advice where you recommend verifying a crack exists before buying on Steam, isn't it similar to see if a GOG (drm-free) version exists that you could fetch at no cost later if needed, and then buy on Steam?
- amiga386 2y ago
  If the game developer wants to follow a particular marketing plan, e.g. they've discovered they get more sales when there's a lot of positive Steam reviews, then of course you can help with that. If retweets, or Reddit posts, or Facebook likes or lets-play Twitch streams, or whatever else sells copies, and you're in a position to do that... However, when buying on Steam, you need to watch out for your own interests too. Will you still be able to play this game in 20 years? Checking there is a crack is your insurance policy. If you can buy it DRM-free on itch.io or GOG, do that instead. Steam store pages will list if there is any _third-party_ DRM, but won't list if the developer is using Steamworks DRM, so generally you have to assume it is (unless the developer assures otherwise, or it's on https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g... )
shantara 2y ago
I can't recall any cases where a game delisted from Steam was removed from the libraries of people who already bought them. Meanwhile, Oxenfree was removed from itch.io, including making it unavailable for download even for those who have purchased the game. This is unprecedented as far as I know. Presumably, itch unlike Steam doesn't have the leverage or lawyers on staff to enforce what's a blatant violation both the consumer rights and itch.io's own terms of service. https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/9/24239877/if-bought-oxenfree-on-itch-io-you-wont-be-able-to-download-it-starting-next-month https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/9/24239877/if-bought-oxenfre...

tertle950 2y ago

The "license to rent a game" deal is a general grievance about Steam that is not related to the article. Also it is one that can be extended to many other services offering digital goods for """purchase""", like iTunes

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

> I know the DRM exists, but to the extent that you trust the word of Steam and Gabe Newell, they have said they will release a patch undoing all Steam DRM if Steam ever goes out of business. I do not believe this was said by Gabe. It was also made years ago before Steam was the size it has become. At the time, Steam might have only been losing Valve first party titles.