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The fact that I'm watching comments like the one you're responding to get heavily downvoted, and then all of them suddenly propped back up speaks a lot to HN's

The fact that I'm watching comments like the one you're responding to get heavily downvoted, and then all of them suddenly propped back up speaks a lot to HN's hatred towards crypto. I mean, I get it, there are plenty of reasons to dislike crypto bro's, but immediately suggesting that they kidnapped themselves without any other evidence is insane.

CPLX 2y ago
It's kind of like wondering if a bloody deer by the side of the road got hit by a car. Like you don't have any evidence that it was hit by a car, it could just as easily have been hit by a boat, or a low flying airplane.
- cooper_ganglia 2y ago
  No, it's more like wondering if a bloody deer by the side of the road got hit by a low flying airplane.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Have more crypto CEOs done rug pulls or been kidnapped by strangers? I’m pretty sure it’s the former.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      You’re ignoring the prior information of „it looks like an abduction“ though. That’s like seeing a dead body on the street and saying „well they look to be under 40, what are the odds that someone dies that young?“. The real question would be „Did more claimed kidnappings of crypto CEOs turn out to be staged or were real?“.
talldayo 2y ago
> but immediately suggesting that they kidnapped themselves without any other evidence is insane. Insane, or a famous form of security fraud that is mitigated by centralized banking systems and therefore highly attractive for crypto-owners. It's a heads-I-win tails-you-lose situation. They were either kidnapped because the attackers knew there was nothing the CEO could do to defend himself, or he kidnapped himself knowing it was plausibly deniable and couldn't be tracked through traditional means. In either case it's reasonable to examine the extenuating circumstances and wonder why cryptocurrency is such a large target for crime.
neilv 2y ago
It's not insane to have that possibility come to mind -- but it's unfair to individuals to voice a snap accusation like that. Why it's not insane to consider that: people know that the cryptocurrency space is full of the unethical, and have seen many rug pulls blamed on theft by some mysterious unknown other party. But, even if a $1M kidnapping was one of the standard cryptobro scam exits (it's not; it's chump change), you'd want more evidence before you start accusing someone who might actually be a traumatized victim.
- cryptica 2y ago
  Yep. I worked in the space for 3 years and basically became a conspiracy theorist in some sense because of how messed up it is. It looks as though only scam coins are allowed to succeed in the space and well-intentioned people are forced to become scammers or else they'll become a target of the SEC or some other gov entity. I've had some REALLY f*ed up interactions with major figures which are almost impossible to explain otherwise. Also in terms of funding, you will see government entities funding projects that are obvious scams over and over. These are not government entities from 'banana republics' BTW, these are western governments. It's not just the founders themselves who are corrupt, it's literally the government apparatus around it. When you have various government entities actively supporting fraud, it creates an environment which is worse than lawlessness. Being an honest person in the space is untenable; you just wouldn't last.
  - pavlov 2y ago
    > “well-intentioned people are forced to become scammers” “Look what you made me do. You left me no choice but to hurt you.”
    - cryptica 2y ago
      It's not like that. I worked with some pioneers in the space who collected millions from the very early days and were within their rights to use those funds as they saw fit but they were coerced/forced into creating non-profit entities to hold the funds (the fact that they were forced was common knowledge at the time it happened) and then they started pouring money down the drain, actively preventing development of the tech and slandering/defaming anyone who tried to improve things. It culminated in them essentially redirecting all raised development funds towards their biggest competitor! This is all public info BTW and could easily be proved in court... Great, if you aren't worried about 'hidden' ramifications! Anyway, all this was done with the explicit approval of government entities. I saw all this happen in real time. Also, one telltale sign is that they were allowed to get away with stuff which I later learned would have been in violation of regulations. This was a very high profile project that reached 3 billion+ market cap. It didn't fall under the radar. The government knew the whole time and was involved in all decisions. I also saw some scam projects receive repeat funding from EU government entities in spite of having failed to deliver anything. Then they raised more funds for later projects.

CPLX 2y ago

It's kind of like wondering if a bloody deer by the side of the road got hit by a car. Like you don't have any evidence that it was hit by a car, it could just as easily have been hit by a boat, or a low flying airplane.

cooper_ganglia 2y ago
No, it's more like wondering if a bloody deer by the side of the road got hit by a low flying airplane.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Have more crypto CEOs done rug pulls or been kidnapped by strangers? I’m pretty sure it’s the former.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    You’re ignoring the prior information of „it looks like an abduction“ though. That’s like seeing a dead body on the street and saying „well they look to be under 40, what are the odds that someone dies that young?“. The real question would be „Did more claimed kidnappings of crypto CEOs turn out to be staged or were real?“.

talldayo 2y ago

> but immediately suggesting that they kidnapped themselves without any other evidence is insane. Insane, or a famous form of security fraud that is mitigated by centralized banking systems and therefore highly attractive for crypto-owners. It's a heads-I-win tails-you-lose situation. They were either kidnapped because the attackers knew there was nothing the CEO could do to defend himself, or he kidnapped himself knowing it was plausibly deniable and couldn't be tracked through traditional means. In either case it's reasonable to examine the extenuating circumstances and wonder why cryptocurrency is such a large target for crime.

neilv 2y ago

It's not insane to have that possibility come to mind -- but it's unfair to individuals to voice a snap accusation like that. Why it's not insane to consider that: people know that the cryptocurrency space is full of the unethical, and have seen many rug pulls blamed on theft by some mysterious unknown other party. But, even if a $1M kidnapping was one of the standard cryptobro scam exits (it's not; it's chump change), you'd want more evidence before you start accusing someone who might actually be a traumatized victim.

cryptica 2y ago
Yep. I worked in the space for 3 years and basically became a conspiracy theorist in some sense because of how messed up it is. It looks as though only scam coins are allowed to succeed in the space and well-intentioned people are forced to become scammers or else they'll become a target of the SEC or some other gov entity. I've had some REALLY f*ed up interactions with major figures which are almost impossible to explain otherwise. Also in terms of funding, you will see government entities funding projects that are obvious scams over and over. These are not government entities from 'banana republics' BTW, these are western governments. It's not just the founders themselves who are corrupt, it's literally the government apparatus around it. When you have various government entities actively supporting fraud, it creates an environment which is worse than lawlessness. Being an honest person in the space is untenable; you just wouldn't last.
- pavlov 2y ago
  > “well-intentioned people are forced to become scammers” “Look what you made me do. You left me no choice but to hurt you.”
  - cryptica 2y ago
    It's not like that. I worked with some pioneers in the space who collected millions from the very early days and were within their rights to use those funds as they saw fit but they were coerced/forced into creating non-profit entities to hold the funds (the fact that they were forced was common knowledge at the time it happened) and then they started pouring money down the drain, actively preventing development of the tech and slandering/defaming anyone who tried to improve things. It culminated in them essentially redirecting all raised development funds towards their biggest competitor! This is all public info BTW and could easily be proved in court... Great, if you aren't worried about 'hidden' ramifications! Anyway, all this was done with the explicit approval of government entities. I saw all this happen in real time. Also, one telltale sign is that they were allowed to get away with stuff which I later learned would have been in violation of regulations. This was a very high profile project that reached 3 billion+ market cap. It didn't fall under the radar. The government knew the whole time and was involved in all decisions. I also saw some scam projects receive repeat funding from EU government entities in spite of having failed to deliver anything. Then they raised more funds for later projects.