5 ms·

Maybe a controversial opinion, but screw them for delisting games. Why would I buy these games when they obviously have no interest in selling them? To me, this

by jm4 2y ago

Maybe a controversial opinion, but screw them for delisting games. Why would I buy these games when they obviously have no interest in selling them? To me, this is a license to go download the ROMs.

tertle950 2y ago
Piracy is the one true frontier for games preservation. If it's not on Steam or GOG, it may be the only feasible way to experience a game. I believe "abandonware" is the correct term
- sqeaky 2y ago
  And because Valve made it clear that purchasing doesn't provide ownership then piracy can't be theft.
  - snoman 2y ago
    I’m sure a judge will agree with you.
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      I'm sure pretty much every judge would? It's copyright infringement, not theft. The media industries just want to guilt trip consumers into thinking it's theft, but it's not. Neither legally nor actually.
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      I'm sure someone pirating for personal use will ever encounter a judge. Pounds of sarcasm, in case this wasn't clear.
    - sqeaky 2y ago
      I don't think it matters if the judge agrees with me. Cases will be brought before judges based on money. Big pirates that are somehow making money doing it will be brought in front of a judge and some love will impact them. Anybody hypothetically pirating one steam game to play for themselves because they felt alienated by Steam isn't going to be dragged in a judge.
goosedragons 2y ago
Getting most of those games on Steam literally gives you the ROMs. DRM free and usable in any emulator. It's likely that at least for the Sega Genesis games Sega will throw out a new collection. The current one is pretty old and has issues, especially with latency.
- echelon_musk 2y ago
  While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs. Using the example of the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics [0] Steam listing the EULA states: > THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. > 3. NO RIGHT TO OWNERSHIP YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP If you look at the Steam store page there are numerous reviews from people who bought the collection only to have Sega remove some of the ROMs from the collection making it impossible to play these games that you paid for. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and_Genesis_Classics/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and...
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    Yes, technically they are licensed. But what software is owned and not licensed? This is not new. Unlike most collections the ROMs here are out in open and easy to access. The reviews here are complaining about Sega delisting the collection. People that already have it will still be able to play them and redownload them off Steam. They have already delisted some of them (e.g., Sonic 3) and they're still available to those that got them before they were removed.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs. Well, maybe. Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them.
    - citruspi 2y ago
      > Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them. I'd really like to believe that is the case, but I think we've already seen that is generally not true based on other digital marketplaces (e.g. Kindle books, iTunes media, etc.) But specifically regarding Steam... this was just last month[0][1] > Valve is now explicitly disclosing that you don’t own the games you buy from its Steam online store. The company has added a note on the payment checkout screen stating that “a purchase of a digital product grants a license for the product on Steam,” as reported earlier by Engadget. > > ... > > Why? Probably, a new law. California has a law going into effect next year that’ll require digital storefronts like Valve’s Steam platform to clearly say that you’re only purchasing a license for your digital media because some companies like Ubisoft and PlayStation were removing digital purchases from users’ libraries, keeping them from playing games like The Crew or watching their old Discovery shows. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/11/24267864/steam-buy-purchase-license-digital-storefront https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/11/24267864/steam-buy-purch... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809193
downrightmike 2y ago
Steam only gives you a license, you don't own anything
- stateoff 2y ago
  Maybe, but SEGA seems to muddy their own case as their official support FAQ section [1] states: "Will I still be able to play the SEGA Classics games? Absolutely! All SEGA Classics games and bundles you own will remain in your library, ready to be downloaded and played at any time." Note the "you own" here that is in dispute with the Steam user agreement. [1] https://support.sega.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29776767664145-SEGA-Classics-FAQ#h_01JBWBC4E7NJ9WH4TKAZXJK27N https://support.sega.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29776767664145-SE...

by jm4 2y ago

Maybe a controversial opinion, but screw them for delisting games. Why would I buy these games when they obviously have no interest in selling them? To me, this is a license to go download the ROMs.

tertle950 2y ago

Piracy is the one true frontier for games preservation. If it's not on Steam or GOG, it may be the only feasible way to experience a game. I believe "abandonware" is the correct term

sqeaky 2y ago
And because Valve made it clear that purchasing doesn't provide ownership then piracy can't be theft.
- snoman 2y ago
  I’m sure a judge will agree with you.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    I'm sure pretty much every judge would? It's copyright infringement, not theft. The media industries just want to guilt trip consumers into thinking it's theft, but it's not. Neither legally nor actually.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    I'm sure someone pirating for personal use will ever encounter a judge. Pounds of sarcasm, in case this wasn't clear.
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    I don't think it matters if the judge agrees with me. Cases will be brought before judges based on money. Big pirates that are somehow making money doing it will be brought in front of a judge and some love will impact them. Anybody hypothetically pirating one steam game to play for themselves because they felt alienated by Steam isn't going to be dragged in a judge.

goosedragons 2y ago

Getting most of those games on Steam literally gives you the ROMs. DRM free and usable in any emulator. It's likely that at least for the Sega Genesis games Sega will throw out a new collection. The current one is pretty old and has issues, especially with latency.

echelon_musk 2y ago
While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs. Using the example of the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics [0] Steam listing the EULA states: > THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. > 3. NO RIGHT TO OWNERSHIP YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP If you look at the Steam store page there are numerous reviews from people who bought the collection only to have Sega remove some of the ROMs from the collection making it impossible to play these games that you paid for. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and_Genesis_Classics/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and...
- goosedragons 2y ago
  Yes, technically they are licensed. But what software is owned and not licensed? This is not new. Unlike most collections the ROMs here are out in open and easy to access. The reviews here are complaining about Sega delisting the collection. People that already have it will still be able to play them and redownload them off Steam. They have already delisted some of them (e.g., Sonic 3) and they're still available to those that got them before they were removed.
- lmm 2y ago
  > While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs. Well, maybe. Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them.
  - citruspi 2y ago
    > Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them. I'd really like to believe that is the case, but I think we've already seen that is generally not true based on other digital marketplaces (e.g. Kindle books, iTunes media, etc.) But specifically regarding Steam... this was just last month[0][1] > Valve is now explicitly disclosing that you don’t own the games you buy from its Steam online store. The company has added a note on the payment checkout screen stating that “a purchase of a digital product grants a license for the product on Steam,” as reported earlier by Engadget. > > ... > > Why? Probably, a new law. California has a law going into effect next year that’ll require digital storefronts like Valve’s Steam platform to clearly say that you’re only purchasing a license for your digital media because some companies like Ubisoft and PlayStation were removing digital purchases from users’ libraries, keeping them from playing games like The Crew or watching their old Discovery shows. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/11/24267864/steam-buy-purchase-license-digital-storefront https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/11/24267864/steam-buy-purch... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809193

downrightmike 2y ago

Steam only gives you a license, you don't own anything

stateoff 2y ago
Maybe, but SEGA seems to muddy their own case as their official support FAQ section [1] states: "Will I still be able to play the SEGA Classics games? Absolutely! All SEGA Classics games and bundles you own will remain in your library, ready to be downloaded and played at any time." Note the "you own" here that is in dispute with the Steam user agreement. [1] https://support.sega.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29776767664145-SEGA-Classics-FAQ#h_01JBWBC4E7NJ9WH4TKAZXJK27N https://support.sega.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29776767664145-SE...