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18 seems terrible. You're making a fraction of the kids miss out on their friends' lives just before they're about to go their separate ways and potentially nev

18 seems terrible. You're making a fraction of the kids miss out on their friends' lives just before they're about to go their separate ways and potentially never see each other again. At least give them a bit of time to naturally settle into the new social environment before they permanently part ways?

OptionOfT 2y ago
I disagree. If the relationship is valuable to you, it requires maintaining. Following each other on social media isn't the same. Not to mention social media is filled with someone's best moments which give you a bad view on how you're doing against your peers. Not to that half of the posts on social media are ads, which aren't good for you at any age.
- dataflow 2y ago
  > If the relationship is valuable to you, it requires maintaining. Following each other on social media isn't the same. Maybe not to you, but to some people it is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. And these are kids about to part with most of their friends for the first time, you can't rely on them having learned your insightful life lessons by this point. I'm guessing you've never been felt the negative effects being left out of a social circle can have? Relationships aren't binary, not everyone is best friends or strangers. Lots of room in between for people to bond or be left out.
  - dsvnasd 2y ago
    With any regulation there are pro/cons. You've highlighted a con but there are significant pros to overcome. I grew up in a pre internet world. We had "negative effects being left out of a social circles" then too. Social circles being hard is not going away regardless of how this decision lands.
    - dataflow 2y ago
      > I grew up in a pre internet world. We had "negative effects being left out of a social circles" then too. Social circles being hard is not going away regardless of how this decision lands. The fact that you never grew up in the social media world highlights exactly why you don't understand the problem despite thinking you do. Your good old "social circles being hard" issue is not the problem here. Please understand that there are plenty of situations where someone gets invited to something if and only they are visible to others and easy to invite. i.e. there exist plenty of situations where being on the platform is the sole determining factor. And that being off the platform that the majority use puts a very significant, ongoing, and asymmetric burden on the host (or invitor, if it's a different person) to keep them posted on all the details that did not exist otherwise, and this fundamentally makes one less likely to be included, in an entirely natural and unavoidable fashion that is no fault of anyone involved, and has nothing to do with "social circles being hard". You have to recognize when the system is making a problem worse than it naturally is.
      - dsvnasd 2y ago
        > You have to recognize when the system is making a problem worse than it naturally is. The irony. How can you be certain that it's not social media making "problem worse than it naturally is"? Many people believe that social media is. As someone who was not particularly visible, and was not invited to every party, I am very aware that "there are plenty of situations where someone gets invited to something if and only they are visible to others and easy to invite". Is "not being on social media" really all that different than "not being on the <insert sport> team"? The same arguments apply. Easier to see and invite teammates, more social cache, etc. In any case, if all teens were off social media then it would not be a determining factor, and I'm sure alternative systems would emerge for inviting people to places.
        dataflow 2y ago
        > The irony. How can you be certain that it's not social media making "problem worse than it naturally is"? Many people believe that social media is. It is the problem. I don't think you understood my point. If nobody in high school had it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. The problem here is some students will have it the last year and some won't. By seeing it at 18, you're making it worse for the younger kids. Either 19 or 16 would be better.
  - pushupentry1219 2y ago
    > Maybe not to you, but to some people it is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. Communication is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. Whether that's through social media, IM, calling them, hanging out in meatspace. THAT is valuable. Not merely following someone on social media. I am in my early 20s. My highschool life (and some after) was filled with social media use and borderline addiction. I added people on social media that I kind of knew, or talked to once, or wanted to talk to. But literally none of that kept me in touch with most if not all of them. More than half of them I never messaged, never interacted with on social media. What kept me in touch with them was me or them. I deleted all my social media. And the ones who make the effort to contact me out of social media? Those are the real relationships.
hooverd 2y ago
They can build those relationships without being hooked into the slop machine.
- dataflow 2y ago
  Not when half of the are hooked, no. See my other comments.
nosbo 2y ago
Not disagreeing with you. But we (those of us old enough to remember) still kept in touch with our friends that moved away to different unis before social media existed.
- dataflow 2y ago
  You're missing the issue I'm referring to. Staying in touch with you is very different when the communication mechanism doesn't pose extra hurdles and burdens compared to the majority of your cohort. It's also very different when you're already close friends by the time you part ways. The issue here is that some people will have social media and some will lack it, putting the latter at an artificial and entirely avoidable disadvantage, causing them to make fewer of those close friendships in the first place compared to their peers. This disparity is the issue I'm talking about, when the bonds aren't strong enough yet.

OptionOfT 2y ago

I disagree. If the relationship is valuable to you, it requires maintaining. Following each other on social media isn't the same. Not to mention social media is filled with someone's best moments which give you a bad view on how you're doing against your peers. Not to that half of the posts on social media are ads, which aren't good for you at any age.

dataflow 2y ago
> If the relationship is valuable to you, it requires maintaining. Following each other on social media isn't the same. Maybe not to you, but to some people it is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. And these are kids about to part with most of their friends for the first time, you can't rely on them having learned your insightful life lessons by this point. I'm guessing you've never been felt the negative effects being left out of a social circle can have? Relationships aren't binary, not everyone is best friends or strangers. Lots of room in between for people to bond or be left out.
- dsvnasd 2y ago
  With any regulation there are pro/cons. You've highlighted a con but there are significant pros to overcome. I grew up in a pre internet world. We had "negative effects being left out of a social circles" then too. Social circles being hard is not going away regardless of how this decision lands.
  - dataflow 2y ago
    > I grew up in a pre internet world. We had "negative effects being left out of a social circles" then too. Social circles being hard is not going away regardless of how this decision lands. The fact that you never grew up in the social media world highlights exactly why you don't understand the problem despite thinking you do. Your good old "social circles being hard" issue is not the problem here. Please understand that there are plenty of situations where someone gets invited to something if and only they are visible to others and easy to invite. i.e. there exist plenty of situations where being on the platform is the sole determining factor. And that being off the platform that the majority use puts a very significant, ongoing, and asymmetric burden on the host (or invitor, if it's a different person) to keep them posted on all the details that did not exist otherwise, and this fundamentally makes one less likely to be included, in an entirely natural and unavoidable fashion that is no fault of anyone involved, and has nothing to do with "social circles being hard". You have to recognize when the system is making a problem worse than it naturally is.
    - dsvnasd 2y ago
      > You have to recognize when the system is making a problem worse than it naturally is. The irony. How can you be certain that it's not social media making "problem worse than it naturally is"? Many people believe that social media is. As someone who was not particularly visible, and was not invited to every party, I am very aware that "there are plenty of situations where someone gets invited to something if and only they are visible to others and easy to invite". Is "not being on social media" really all that different than "not being on the <insert sport> team"? The same arguments apply. Easier to see and invite teammates, more social cache, etc. In any case, if all teens were off social media then it would not be a determining factor, and I'm sure alternative systems would emerge for inviting people to places.
      - dataflow 2y ago
        > The irony. How can you be certain that it's not social media making "problem worse than it naturally is"? Many people believe that social media is. It is the problem. I don't think you understood my point. If nobody in high school had it, I wouldn't be bringing it up. The problem here is some students will have it the last year and some won't. By seeing it at 18, you're making it worse for the younger kids. Either 19 or 16 would be better.
- pushupentry1219 2y ago
  > Maybe not to you, but to some people it is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. Communication is incredibly valuable for maintaining relationships. Whether that's through social media, IM, calling them, hanging out in meatspace. THAT is valuable. Not merely following someone on social media. I am in my early 20s. My highschool life (and some after) was filled with social media use and borderline addiction. I added people on social media that I kind of knew, or talked to once, or wanted to talk to. But literally none of that kept me in touch with most if not all of them. More than half of them I never messaged, never interacted with on social media. What kept me in touch with them was me or them. I deleted all my social media. And the ones who make the effort to contact me out of social media? Those are the real relationships.

hooverd 2y ago

They can build those relationships without being hooked into the slop machine.

dataflow 2y ago
Not when half of the are hooked, no. See my other comments.

nosbo 2y ago

Not disagreeing with you. But we (those of us old enough to remember) still kept in touch with our friends that moved away to different unis before social media existed.

dataflow 2y ago
You're missing the issue I'm referring to. Staying in touch with you is very different when the communication mechanism doesn't pose extra hurdles and burdens compared to the majority of your cohort. It's also very different when you're already close friends by the time you part ways. The issue here is that some people will have social media and some will lack it, putting the latter at an artificial and entirely avoidable disadvantage, causing them to make fewer of those close friendships in the first place compared to their peers. This disparity is the issue I'm talking about, when the bonds aren't strong enough yet.