4 ms·

Your naivete would be cute if it wasn't so dangerous. > maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. Ask anyone in a competitive industry, regardless of seniority,

Your naivete would be cute if it wasn't so dangerous. > maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. Ask anyone in a competitive industry, regardless of seniority, if there was ever a time in their career if they didn't work more than that. > childcare is an absolute right that can't be denied or lead to a disadvantage. Just today I saw a post on LinkedIn from a woman telling the story of how she came back from maternity leave to find out how her report was promoted to do her job and she was offered the lower position but kept with the original pay/benefits. It's a shitty situation and the woman claimed she had the privilege to tell them to shove it, but there is nothing illegal about it.

em-bee 2y ago
in germany this i absolutely illegal. even in the US this is probably considered discrimination: https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination
- rglullis 2y ago
  The woman got back with her job title and pay intact, but because during her absence her report took over her work, the company had to decide which of the two employees would have to perform the secondary function. What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed? Keep two employees as the "boss" and be forced to hire a third one?
  - em-bee 2y ago
    What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed yes, because the employee should have known that this was a temporary promotion. that is how this is supposed to work.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      And then you are effectively discriminating against the employee that did not / wanted not / could not have a leave. How is that solving anything? This is the typical Protestant/German absurdity, trying to reduce every interpersonal problem into a systematic process that can be blindly applied to everyone, like we were all disposable cogs.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        it's not discrimination if i offer you a temporary position. it was never meant to be a permanent promotion. it's like a time limited contract. you know up front what you are getting. if you don't like it you can reject it. however, i am pretty sure that doing well in a temporary position will look good for future promotions. having children is important for the future of our society, and this needs to be protected. in this situation it is the mother vs the temporary replacement. if i can't keep both, then in the interest of our children i must give preference to the mother.
        rglullis 2y ago
        > it's like a time limited contract Except it is not. You are probably very well aware that maternity leave in Germany protects the mother's job up to three years. There is never certainty about when the mother will come back. Look, I am not saying that extended maternity leave is not important. What I am saying is one can not put someone else's career growth on the line over this. > having children is important for the future of our society, and this needs to be protected. Correct. Yet fertility rates keep going down and women keep delaying their pregnancies and favoring work over kids. Why is that? Couldn't it be that we have been optimizing for economic output (dual family income becoming mandatory, the school system that is basically tailored to allow parents to work full time, laws that try to keep women working during the childbearing years) instead of optimizing for a system that keeps a nuclear family living well enough on a single income? To go back to the original discussion: for Christ's sake, we are talking here about the idea of getting rid of weekends. Isn't that further propagating the idea that pushing our society to more work is a good thing? Where does this madness stop?

em-bee 2y ago

in germany this i absolutely illegal. even in the US this is probably considered discrimination: https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination

rglullis 2y ago
The woman got back with her job title and pay intact, but because during her absence her report took over her work, the company had to decide which of the two employees would have to perform the secondary function. What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed? Keep two employees as the "boss" and be forced to hire a third one?
- em-bee 2y ago
  What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed yes, because the employee should have known that this was a temporary promotion. that is how this is supposed to work.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    And then you are effectively discriminating against the employee that did not / wanted not / could not have a leave. How is that solving anything? This is the typical Protestant/German absurdity, trying to reduce every interpersonal problem into a systematic process that can be blindly applied to everyone, like we were all disposable cogs.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      it's not discrimination if i offer you a temporary position. it was never meant to be a permanent promotion. it's like a time limited contract. you know up front what you are getting. if you don't like it you can reject it. however, i am pretty sure that doing well in a temporary position will look good for future promotions. having children is important for the future of our society, and this needs to be protected. in this situation it is the mother vs the temporary replacement. if i can't keep both, then in the interest of our children i must give preference to the mother.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        > it's like a time limited contract Except it is not. You are probably very well aware that maternity leave in Germany protects the mother's job up to three years. There is never certainty about when the mother will come back. Look, I am not saying that extended maternity leave is not important. What I am saying is one can not put someone else's career growth on the line over this. > having children is important for the future of our society, and this needs to be protected. Correct. Yet fertility rates keep going down and women keep delaying their pregnancies and favoring work over kids. Why is that? Couldn't it be that we have been optimizing for economic output (dual family income becoming mandatory, the school system that is basically tailored to allow parents to work full time, laws that try to keep women working during the childbearing years) instead of optimizing for a system that keeps a nuclear family living well enough on a single income? To go back to the original discussion: for Christ's sake, we are talking here about the idea of getting rid of weekends. Isn't that further propagating the idea that pushing our society to more work is a good thing? Where does this madness stop?