3 ms·

> Also I don't see the point, because there are americans saying, we should be friends with communist china and become like them. By giving those ideas more roo

by aprilthird2021 2y ago

> Also I don't see the point, because there are americans saying, we should be friends with communist china and become like them. By giving those ideas more room - whenever they want, they can shape the discourse. That's called free speech. Horrible, terrible ideas are given room, and we trust people to figure it out. Hell, many many Americans became vaccine skeptics because they were drawn into RFK talking points. That's dangerous too, but free speech is more important than forcing everyone to be good or have good, safe opinions

lukan 2y ago
No, free speech is when everyone in the same room has the same right to speak. This is creating the illusion of a free speech, where people think they can listen to the other opinions, but in reality they only get to see a distorted part of it. But if you like that, I won't support banning that.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  But what you are describing is basically a magazine. There are editors who decide what is and isn't published. It's still free speech to be able to edit and publish a magazine full of whatever you want, and to present it as providing diverse opinions even if it does not
  - lukan 2y ago
    It is - and I think if the Chinese government would have a magazine with the same dominant market position amd reach, we would have the same discussion.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      No, we wouldn't. In America, foreign-controlled news and media are allowed to be consumed by the public. It's a fundamental aspect of the right to free speech
- juliuskiesian 2y ago
  Free speech by your definition does not exist anywhere. The editors of New York Times, CNN etc do not have the "same" right to speak as an average citizen. So the free speech you have experienced so far is nothing more than an illusion.
- juliuskiesian 2y ago
  Nobody has the full view of reality. It's always projected through a lens colored by feelings, emotions, upbringing, education, environment etc. When you hate something, it's not always because have a fully rational motive to hate, but often the things your have experienced, you have read and heard, leads you into that trajectory without you even realizing it. Same goes for love. You hate TikTok and millions of your fellow Americans love TikTok, does that mean you are in a higher position of enlightenment and more holistic view of the universe? I don't think so. It's also pure nonsense that TikTok is somehow "misleading" the American youth. It's basically a recommendation engine. And what's the job of a recommendation engine? To give you whatever content you might be interested in. Just go to youtube and start clicking all the garbage content (if they are not censored already), you will end up with a lot of garbage in your feed. Because if you spend a lot of time watching garbage, the algorithm will think you like garbage and will push garbage onto your frontpage.

lukan 2y ago

No, free speech is when everyone in the same room has the same right to speak. This is creating the illusion of a free speech, where people think they can listen to the other opinions, but in reality they only get to see a distorted part of it. But if you like that, I won't support banning that.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
But what you are describing is basically a magazine. There are editors who decide what is and isn't published. It's still free speech to be able to edit and publish a magazine full of whatever you want, and to present it as providing diverse opinions even if it does not
- lukan 2y ago
  It is - and I think if the Chinese government would have a magazine with the same dominant market position amd reach, we would have the same discussion.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    No, we wouldn't. In America, foreign-controlled news and media are allowed to be consumed by the public. It's a fundamental aspect of the right to free speech
juliuskiesian 2y ago
Free speech by your definition does not exist anywhere. The editors of New York Times, CNN etc do not have the "same" right to speak as an average citizen. So the free speech you have experienced so far is nothing more than an illusion.
juliuskiesian 2y ago
Nobody has the full view of reality. It's always projected through a lens colored by feelings, emotions, upbringing, education, environment etc. When you hate something, it's not always because have a fully rational motive to hate, but often the things your have experienced, you have read and heard, leads you into that trajectory without you even realizing it. Same goes for love. You hate TikTok and millions of your fellow Americans love TikTok, does that mean you are in a higher position of enlightenment and more holistic view of the universe? I don't think so. It's also pure nonsense that TikTok is somehow "misleading" the American youth. It's basically a recommendation engine. And what's the job of a recommendation engine? To give you whatever content you might be interested in. Just go to youtube and start clicking all the garbage content (if they are not censored already), you will end up with a lot of garbage in your feed. Because if you spend a lot of time watching garbage, the algorithm will think you like garbage and will push garbage onto your frontpage.