3 ms·

I agree with everything you said. Leaving the morale and ideology aside for a moment though and looking at the technical side, couldn't this, at least in theory

I agree with everything you said. Leaving the morale and ideology aside for a moment though and looking at the technical side, couldn't this, at least in theory, also be implemented in a way that's not so dystopian? Everyone has a SIM card, whether physical or digital, and also a cell plan. If you make carriers mark all underage customers and then have the SIM forward that boolean value to the phone and nothing more, could you in theory still implement something like this without any further breach of privacy? Of course, as with any system there's workarounds, but as a baseline this would work, no?

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Maybe things have changed since I was a kid, and I'm not up to date as my kids are too young to operate cell phones, but - does anyone actually buys a plan for an underage person? I'd think it's usually an adult parent/caregiver who buys another SIM card under their own name and just gives it to the kid; the carrier shouldn't have a way of knowing which phone/SIM card belongs to an underage person.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Functionally yes, the plan is in the parent's name. But at least where I'm from, you already have plans that are geared at kids, e.g. they have limits on how big their bill can be so they don't blow it up, certain services are turned off for them such as pay-per-minute calls, and so forth. Perhaps to put a different way, the carriers might not have this info right now, but it would be straightforward to implement this limit this way. Any other approach that I can think of would be both more technical work and also a bigger breach of privacy.
michaelt 2y ago
> couldn't this, at least in theory, also be implemented in a way that's not so dystopian? It depends on the assumptions you're willing to make. Imagine if Australia introduces a block that works really well, and preserves privacy, but you can bypass it by using a VPN, or by rooting your phone. Would that be good enough, because only 1% of kids will figure out those bypasses? Or will the knowledge spread like wildfire until 90% of kids are using VPNs or rooting their phones? If you assume such bypasses would spread like wildfire, Australia would also need to block all VPNs or make every phone impossible to root. Tough to do that in a way that isn't dystopian.
- EraYaN 2y ago
  That is why you always regulate the provider/seller (ie. the social media site) and not the consumption side. We already learned this in the war on drugs, prosecution of consumption has never really worked all that well.

TeMPOraL 2y ago

Maybe things have changed since I was a kid, and I'm not up to date as my kids are too young to operate cell phones, but - does anyone actually buys a plan for an underage person? I'd think it's usually an adult parent/caregiver who buys another SIM card under their own name and just gives it to the kid; the carrier shouldn't have a way of knowing which phone/SIM card belongs to an underage person.

Etheryte 2y ago
Functionally yes, the plan is in the parent's name. But at least where I'm from, you already have plans that are geared at kids, e.g. they have limits on how big their bill can be so they don't blow it up, certain services are turned off for them such as pay-per-minute calls, and so forth. Perhaps to put a different way, the carriers might not have this info right now, but it would be straightforward to implement this limit this way. Any other approach that I can think of would be both more technical work and also a bigger breach of privacy.

michaelt 2y ago

> couldn't this, at least in theory, also be implemented in a way that's not so dystopian? It depends on the assumptions you're willing to make. Imagine if Australia introduces a block that works really well, and preserves privacy, but you can bypass it by using a VPN, or by rooting your phone. Would that be good enough, because only 1% of kids will figure out those bypasses? Or will the knowledge spread like wildfire until 90% of kids are using VPNs or rooting their phones? If you assume such bypasses would spread like wildfire, Australia would also need to block all VPNs or make every phone impossible to root. Tough to do that in a way that isn't dystopian.

EraYaN 2y ago
That is why you always regulate the provider/seller (ie. the social media site) and not the consumption side. We already learned this in the war on drugs, prosecution of consumption has never really worked all that well.