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SocMed / AdTech cos. can already ID and target users with precision. Knowing someone's pregnant before their family does, per the canonical example from 2012.[

SocMed / AdTech cos. can already ID and target users with precision. Knowing someone's pregnant before their family does, per the canonical example from 2012.[1] Impose an insanely steep tax (say, 10,000%) on all ads revenue tied to underage individuals. Now it's possible to pursue the Al Capone prosecution: tax fraud. SocMed cos. will avoid anyone underage like the plauge. ________________________________ Notes: 1. "How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did" <https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...>, discussed on HN at the time: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3601354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3601354> (17 Feb 2012).

ben_w 2y ago
Given my experience with ads today is that they frequently get my gender, language, nationality, and country of residence wrong (and in mutually incompatible ways), I suspect that the famous pregnancy story was dumb luck rather than a reflection of quality. But yes, the Al Capone solution seems like it would work.
- xuki 2y ago
  They don’t have to be right all the time, just enough to make ROI positive.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    I realize this is the prevailing wisdom but it is short sighted and simplistic because it ignores opportunity cost.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      Could you expand on that?
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Simply being positive does not mean it is ideal. Accepting the first approach that delivers a positive result could mean you miss out on other even better opportunities.
  - HappMacDonald 2y ago
    For their own needs, yes. For the purposes of satisfying the goals of government regulations, no.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    I don't mind them having a positive ROI. I do mind them spying on me and my children, even if they draw incorrect conclusions about what ads interest us.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  More on mechanism (and why specific mechanisms should not be legislated) here: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42075146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42075146>
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
graemep 2y ago
> SocMed / AdTech cos. can already ID and target users with precision. Not reliably so, and not people who are deliberately trying to fake the system. Looking at the ads FB are showing me, they are not well targetted at all. I can see an add about AI in education that seems to be aimed at teachers (not a teacher), one from a charity aimed at people with spare rooms that could be used to accommodate human trafficking survivors (I do not have a spare room), a summer school for kids who might do a history related subject at university (that one is well targetted), one advertising admin jobs at British intelligence agencies (I only just meet security requirements and I do not have relevant experience). I get shown multiple ads aimed at Muslims (I am not a Muslim). In the past I have been shown ads for Judaism GCSE courses (not Jewish either, and my kids did not do any religion GCSEs).
- richrichardsson 2y ago
  As a counter to this: advertisers not knowing how to use the targeting options available to them != the platform can't target well. Saying that though, it does seem like as soon as I click one advert (either out of curiosity, or to waste obvious scam advertisers budget), I'm suddenly inundated with similar adverts. Worse I've clicked an ad, bought a product and still seen adverts for the same product from the vendor after the fact. I'm pretty sure there are ways for vendors to preclude such wasteful ad spend.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    > As a counter to this: advertisers not knowing how to use the targeting options available to them != the platform can't target well. Also, it's not like the platform is going to give advertisers access to its full capabilities. For one, they don't need to - they only need to sell the minimum it takes to keep the advertisers on board. Two, they wouldn't want some clever advertisers to extract juicy data indirectly and cut out the middleman.
    - high_na_euv 2y ago
      Wut? Better capabilities for customers, they reach more customers, more revenue = they may increase ad spending because they see it working
mavhc 2y ago
https://medium.com/@colin.fraser/target-didnt-figure-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did-a6be13b973a5 https://medium.com/@colin.fraser/target-didnt-figure-out-a-t...
cen4 2y ago
Rather than tax, I would just like to see data on how many Ads kids are being shown in a day. And whether its increasing year on year.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  ¿Por que no los dos?
alistairSH 2y ago
And yet Netflix, Amazon, etc recommend movies and shows I’ve watched in the last 6 months. They literally know who I am and what I’ve watched and can’t/won’t build a basic recommendation engine that includes “don’t recommend things watched in the last X months”. Maybe there’s a reason they want me to rewatch things, but I find it extremely annoying to have the first rows of recommendations be things I watched recently.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  That is all but certainly more a sign of enshittification than of technical inability to implement that function.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  This might make sense given the priors. e.g. someone who's hasn't watched Star Wars in the past 6 months might be less likely to watch and enjoy Star Wars than someone who's already watched Star Wars in the past 6 months.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ben_w 2y ago

Given my experience with ads today is that they frequently get my gender, language, nationality, and country of residence wrong (and in mutually incompatible ways), I suspect that the famous pregnancy story was dumb luck rather than a reflection of quality. But yes, the Al Capone solution seems like it would work.

xuki 2y ago
They don’t have to be right all the time, just enough to make ROI positive.
- mulmen 2y ago
  I realize this is the prevailing wisdom but it is short sighted and simplistic because it ignores opportunity cost.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Could you expand on that?
    - mulmen 2y ago
      Simply being positive does not mean it is ideal. Accepting the first approach that delivers a positive result could mean you miss out on other even better opportunities.
- HappMacDonald 2y ago
  For their own needs, yes. For the purposes of satisfying the goals of government regulations, no.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  I don't mind them having a positive ROI. I do mind them spying on me and my children, even if they draw incorrect conclusions about what ads interest us.
dredmorbius 2y ago
More on mechanism (and why specific mechanisms should not be legislated) here: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42075146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42075146>
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

graemep 2y ago

> SocMed / AdTech cos. can already ID and target users with precision. Not reliably so, and not people who are deliberately trying to fake the system. Looking at the ads FB are showing me, they are not well targetted at all. I can see an add about AI in education that seems to be aimed at teachers (not a teacher), one from a charity aimed at people with spare rooms that could be used to accommodate human trafficking survivors (I do not have a spare room), a summer school for kids who might do a history related subject at university (that one is well targetted), one advertising admin jobs at British intelligence agencies (I only just meet security requirements and I do not have relevant experience). I get shown multiple ads aimed at Muslims (I am not a Muslim). In the past I have been shown ads for Judaism GCSE courses (not Jewish either, and my kids did not do any religion GCSEs).

richrichardsson 2y ago
As a counter to this: advertisers not knowing how to use the targeting options available to them != the platform can't target well. Saying that though, it does seem like as soon as I click one advert (either out of curiosity, or to waste obvious scam advertisers budget), I'm suddenly inundated with similar adverts. Worse I've clicked an ad, bought a product and still seen adverts for the same product from the vendor after the fact. I'm pretty sure there are ways for vendors to preclude such wasteful ad spend.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  > As a counter to this: advertisers not knowing how to use the targeting options available to them != the platform can't target well. Also, it's not like the platform is going to give advertisers access to its full capabilities. For one, they don't need to - they only need to sell the minimum it takes to keep the advertisers on board. Two, they wouldn't want some clever advertisers to extract juicy data indirectly and cut out the middleman.
  - high_na_euv 2y ago
    Wut? Better capabilities for customers, they reach more customers, more revenue = they may increase ad spending because they see it working

mavhc 2y ago

https://medium.com/@colin.fraser/target-didnt-figure-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did-a6be13b973a5 https://medium.com/@colin.fraser/target-didnt-figure-out-a-t...

cen4 2y ago

Rather than tax, I would just like to see data on how many Ads kids are being shown in a day. And whether its increasing year on year.

dredmorbius 2y ago
¿Por que no los dos?

alistairSH 2y ago

And yet Netflix, Amazon, etc recommend movies and shows I’ve watched in the last 6 months. They literally know who I am and what I’ve watched and can’t/won’t build a basic recommendation engine that includes “don’t recommend things watched in the last X months”. Maybe there’s a reason they want me to rewatch things, but I find it extremely annoying to have the first rows of recommendations be things I watched recently.

dredmorbius 2y ago
That is all but certainly more a sign of enshittification than of technical inability to implement that function.
Marsymars 2y ago
This might make sense given the priors. e.g. someone who's hasn't watched Star Wars in the past 6 months might be less likely to watch and enjoy Star Wars than someone who's already watched Star Wars in the past 6 months.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]