4 ms·

No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do

No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do. That worked for a time in the early 2010s but they have yet to realize that when there are economic troubles it’s not enough to win elections, as this vote demographics show. No need to insult the intellectual capacity of the other camp.

hackyhacky 2y ago
It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.
- tarsinge 2y ago
  But Democrats gave simple explanations: “Joe is the sharpest he has ever been, the economy is the best you experienced your grocery bill increase is in your mind, no need to hold primaries and have your opinion we know this candidate is the best, etc… and if you disagree with any of this your are not smart enough”. I’m harsh but as a non American leaning left economically I found myself in disagreement many times this pas year but any criticism was met with huge suspicion.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    Sure, there were many mistakes made by the Democrats' campaign. In your examples, the problem is not that the explanations are simple, but rather that they are obviously wrong. EDIT: For fun, let's contrast the attitude of each campaign to its detractors. The Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are dumb. The Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are Communist pedophiles who want to destroy America.
    - tarsinge 2y ago
      I don’t disagree, but regarding your edit I’m not saying Republicans are not (way) worse, but that I’m hugely disappointed at Democrats. My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way.
      - hackyhacky 2y ago
        > My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way. Me too. The Democrats need a better story, a narrative that people can engage with emotionally.
    - valval 2y ago
      Amazing the cognitive dissonance. Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi.
      - hackyhacky 2y ago
        > Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. > Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi. Only one of their statements is accurate. Not all opinions are equally valid.
    - stcroixx 2y ago
      What many heard the Democrats say was that if you oppose their policies you're not only dumb, you're also a racist, misogynist, fascist, nazi, and a threat to democracy.
      - insane_dreamer 2y ago
        That was never said. What was said, repeatedly, is that _Trump_ is a racist, misogynist, has fascist and nazi tendencies, and is a threat to democracy. All of which is true. Ask his former chief of staff. I disagree with most GOP policies, but don't have an issue with people voting Republican -- I would have been okay with someone like Romney or McCain as president; I could probably even handle pre-MAGA DeSantis (wouldn't be happy but whatever, we'll live). But if people are voting for _Trump_ specifically, then either they hold the same values as Trump, or they're willing to sell out their values for a promise of cheap gas (that they aren't even going to get!). Either way it's pretty bad.

hackyhacky 2y ago

It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.

tarsinge 2y ago
But Democrats gave simple explanations: “Joe is the sharpest he has ever been, the economy is the best you experienced your grocery bill increase is in your mind, no need to hold primaries and have your opinion we know this candidate is the best, etc… and if you disagree with any of this your are not smart enough”. I’m harsh but as a non American leaning left economically I found myself in disagreement many times this pas year but any criticism was met with huge suspicion.
- hackyhacky 2y ago
  Sure, there were many mistakes made by the Democrats' campaign. In your examples, the problem is not that the explanations are simple, but rather that they are obviously wrong. EDIT: For fun, let's contrast the attitude of each campaign to its detractors. The Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are dumb. The Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are Communist pedophiles who want to destroy America.
  - tarsinge 2y ago
    I don’t disagree, but regarding your edit I’m not saying Republicans are not (way) worse, but that I’m hugely disappointed at Democrats. My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way.
    - hackyhacky 2y ago
      > My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way. Me too. The Democrats need a better story, a narrative that people can engage with emotionally.
  - valval 2y ago
    Amazing the cognitive dissonance. Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi.
    - hackyhacky 2y ago
      > Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. > Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi. Only one of their statements is accurate. Not all opinions are equally valid.
  - stcroixx 2y ago
    What many heard the Democrats say was that if you oppose their policies you're not only dumb, you're also a racist, misogynist, fascist, nazi, and a threat to democracy.
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      That was never said. What was said, repeatedly, is that _Trump_ is a racist, misogynist, has fascist and nazi tendencies, and is a threat to democracy. All of which is true. Ask his former chief of staff. I disagree with most GOP policies, but don't have an issue with people voting Republican -- I would have been okay with someone like Romney or McCain as president; I could probably even handle pre-MAGA DeSantis (wouldn't be happy but whatever, we'll live). But if people are voting for _Trump_ specifically, then either they hold the same values as Trump, or they're willing to sell out their values for a promise of cheap gas (that they aren't even going to get!). Either way it's pretty bad.