5 ms·

Harris had proposed policies? That's news to me... Only think I remember is abortion abortion abortion.

pajdziu 2y ago
https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_B... Not a single mention of "abortion" in this document.
hackyhacky 2y ago
> That's news to me See, this is the problem. Actually, serious policies (meaning, more serious than "drill baby drill" or "build a wall") are long, complicated, and boring. They don't fit neatly into a soundbite or a chant at a rally, so people who don't have the temperament or capacity to seek out and read such documents think the policies don't exist. In seriousness, the solution is that Democrats need to be better at messaging by crafting policies that are understandable to their audience.
- tarsinge 2y ago
  No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do. That worked for a time in the early 2010s but they have yet to realize that when there are economic troubles it’s not enough to win elections, as this vote demographics show. No need to insult the intellectual capacity of the other camp.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.
    - tarsinge 2y ago
      But Democrats gave simple explanations: “Joe is the sharpest he has ever been, the economy is the best you experienced your grocery bill increase is in your mind, no need to hold primaries and have your opinion we know this candidate is the best, etc… and if you disagree with any of this your are not smart enough”. I’m harsh but as a non American leaning left economically I found myself in disagreement many times this pas year but any criticism was met with huge suspicion.
      - hackyhacky 2y ago
        Sure, there were many mistakes made by the Democrats' campaign. In your examples, the problem is not that the explanations are simple, but rather that they are obviously wrong. EDIT: For fun, let's contrast the attitude of each campaign to its detractors. The Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are dumb. The Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are Communist pedophiles who want to destroy America.
        tarsinge 2y ago
        I don’t disagree, but regarding your edit I’m not saying Republicans are not (way) worse, but that I’m hugely disappointed at Democrats. My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way.
        hackyhacky 2y ago
        > My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way. Me too. The Democrats need a better story, a narrative that people can engage with emotionally.
        valval 2y ago
        Amazing the cognitive dissonance. Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi.
xp84 2y ago
I also remember her endorsing an unrealized capital gains tax! The stupidest thing I've ever heard. "Hi, government here! We're going to have to ask you to (if necessary) sell this farm/land/house/boat so you can pay us 10% of its value this year. They tried to pretend this would "only" be for people worth over $100M but we know that line would start to come down especially once they noticed how little money that version would bring in, since people with that much money are the same set of people who can afford expensive lawyers to shelter their income and assets. This destructive policy was the final straw and prevented me from voting for Harris. (I also didn't vote for Trump).
- gusmd 2y ago
  Property taxes work like that. People sometimes sell houses because they can't afford their property taxes when their assets increase in value substantially. Not saying I agree with that or not, but it is reality today.

https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_B... Not a single mention of "abortion" in this document.

hackyhacky 2y ago

> That's news to me See, this is the problem. Actually, serious policies (meaning, more serious than "drill baby drill" or "build a wall") are long, complicated, and boring. They don't fit neatly into a soundbite or a chant at a rally, so people who don't have the temperament or capacity to seek out and read such documents think the policies don't exist. In seriousness, the solution is that Democrats need to be better at messaging by crafting policies that are understandable to their audience.

tarsinge 2y ago
No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do. That worked for a time in the early 2010s but they have yet to realize that when there are economic troubles it’s not enough to win elections, as this vote demographics show. No need to insult the intellectual capacity of the other camp.
- hackyhacky 2y ago
  It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.
  - tarsinge 2y ago
    But Democrats gave simple explanations: “Joe is the sharpest he has ever been, the economy is the best you experienced your grocery bill increase is in your mind, no need to hold primaries and have your opinion we know this candidate is the best, etc… and if you disagree with any of this your are not smart enough”. I’m harsh but as a non American leaning left economically I found myself in disagreement many times this pas year but any criticism was met with huge suspicion.
    - hackyhacky 2y ago
      Sure, there were many mistakes made by the Democrats' campaign. In your examples, the problem is not that the explanations are simple, but rather that they are obviously wrong. EDIT: For fun, let's contrast the attitude of each campaign to its detractors. The Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are dumb. The Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are Communist pedophiles who want to destroy America.
      - tarsinge 2y ago
        I don’t disagree, but regarding your edit I’m not saying Republicans are not (way) worse, but that I’m hugely disappointed at Democrats. My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way.
        hackyhacky 2y ago
        > My hope was that instead of taking inspiration from Republicans they would lead an other way. Me too. The Democrats need a better story, a narrative that people can engage with emotionally.
      - valval 2y ago
        Amazing the cognitive dissonance. Democrats say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, nazi, you name it. Republicans say that people who oppose their strategies are racist, sexist, xenophobic, dumb, fascist, and nazi.

xp84 2y ago

I also remember her endorsing an unrealized capital gains tax! The stupidest thing I've ever heard. "Hi, government here! We're going to have to ask you to (if necessary) sell this farm/land/house/boat so you can pay us 10% of its value this year. They tried to pretend this would "only" be for people worth over $100M but we know that line would start to come down especially once they noticed how little money that version would bring in, since people with that much money are the same set of people who can afford expensive lawyers to shelter their income and assets. This destructive policy was the final straw and prevented me from voting for Harris. (I also didn't vote for Trump).

gusmd 2y ago
Property taxes work like that. People sometimes sell houses because they can't afford their property taxes when their assets increase in value substantially. Not saying I agree with that or not, but it is reality today.