4 ms·

But what is out there on TikTok that's so dangerous to the state? Dance videos?

kelseyfrog 2y ago
The clearest way to look at this is through the lens of Althusser's Ideological State Apparatus(ISK). Media is one of the arms of the ISK. It's not necessarily that TikTok is foreign owned, it's that China's dominant ideology is incompatible with the western hegemony. The western ISK sees alternative ideologies as a threat and control over the arm of mass media is a concrete form of that threat. The ISK must have control over dominant forms of media in order to maintain ideological hegemony.
usr1106 2y ago
Making a whole generation unfit for qualified work is a serious threat for every nation. Many of the Tiktok generation live in a world where reading for 3 minutes is a heavy effort they are unwilling to do. All information is supposed to be presented in short entertaining video clips. In China online time for the youth has been strictly regulated years ago. But harming other nations is only in their interest.
- hooverd 2y ago
  How is that fundamentally different from Reels and Shorts and whatever Facebook has cooking?
  - usr1106 2y ago
    Meta is not fundamentally better than Bytedance. Their business model is addiction combined with accumulating and misusing user data.
  - 7speter 2y ago
    Facebook only started cooking those after they saw what tiktok posts were doing and how popular they were.
    - FpUser 2y ago
      Doe it make FB any better? The asshole is an asshole.
_ache_ 2y ago
That's is an interesting question. Actually, there is a lot more. About 30% people (of USA) use TT, ~60% under 30. You guess it, they don't to look only at dance videos. Social media had become a huge source of information for a big chunk of the population. On TT, and on most social media (SM), what you watch is mainly determined by the recommendation algorithm. This algo can hide subjects the SM can't put ad on but also subjects the they don't like and boost the one they do (shadow ban). That how you politicize SM. That about, the first thing Musk did with Twitter (after firing people). When it's a state controlled SM, it's more like foreign interference. There is a lot of books about that. It's documented, not a secret of something. Uyghurs for example, have been a subject of ban on TikTok, shadowing it heavily.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  But it's not foreign interference, it's foreign media. Foreign media is permissible for Americans to choose to consume and guess what, young people lap it up. That's their right
  - _ache_ 2y ago
    It could have been if ByteDance wasn't totally state controlled. Also, since TikTok is banned on China, it's not like it exists in China as a media (the Chinese version is called Douyin and basically it's the same as TikTok but with contents from within China only, to not interfere with the Great Firewall). Also, the concept of "choose to consume" is blurring with algorithm recommendation and optimizing dopamine reward to maximize screen time. The CCP didn't control of ByteDance to interference with other countries but to be able to control what happens inside China. But now, it's different.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      But none of that changes the fact that Americans have the right to consume foreign controlled media. Totally state controlled media is legal to consume and spread and even become super popular in the US. I really dislike the idea that if some content is popular in the US and the government thinks the content is bad, they can just ban it. "Algorithmic manipulation" is a red herring. If people like it, they can watch it. If they don't they don't have to. Doesn't matter who makes it or for what reason
spacechild1 2y ago
For example, islamistic propaganda. It's a serious problem, at least here in Europe. You literally see 10-year-olds watching videos of beheadings in the subway. Oh, and I wouldn't say that FB is much better. The EU should probably ban both.
kortilla 2y ago
TikTok is packed full of political propaganda. Controlling which narratives people think are popular is super powerful. It’s called manufacturing consent.
- ajrehg 2y ago
  So is the Canadian government, especially under Trudeau, which indirectly controls the media organizations through funding. All mainstream articles about the trucker protests were horrific lies (except for the honking, which was indeed disruptive and stupid). I don't care about TikTok, since there is nothing of value there. But will Canada also ban globaltimes.cn now? (The value of the Global Times is to find out what the party in China thinks, not that it is unbiased.)
  - kortilla 2y ago
    Both the Canadian media and globaltimes.cn don’t have nearly the screentime or intimate targeting TikTok has. It’s like billboard on the highway vs someone whispering things to you for 2 hours every day.

The clearest way to look at this is through the lens of Althusser's Ideological State Apparatus(ISK). Media is one of the arms of the ISK. It's not necessarily that TikTok is foreign owned, it's that China's dominant ideology is incompatible with the western hegemony. The western ISK sees alternative ideologies as a threat and control over the arm of mass media is a concrete form of that threat. The ISK must have control over dominant forms of media in order to maintain ideological hegemony.

usr1106 2y ago

Making a whole generation unfit for qualified work is a serious threat for every nation. Many of the Tiktok generation live in a world where reading for 3 minutes is a heavy effort they are unwilling to do. All information is supposed to be presented in short entertaining video clips. In China online time for the youth has been strictly regulated years ago. But harming other nations is only in their interest.

hooverd 2y ago
How is that fundamentally different from Reels and Shorts and whatever Facebook has cooking?
- usr1106 2y ago
  Meta is not fundamentally better than Bytedance. Their business model is addiction combined with accumulating and misusing user data.
- 7speter 2y ago
  Facebook only started cooking those after they saw what tiktok posts were doing and how popular they were.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    Doe it make FB any better? The asshole is an asshole.

_ache_ 2y ago

That's is an interesting question. Actually, there is a lot more. About 30% people (of USA) use TT, ~60% under 30. You guess it, they don't to look only at dance videos. Social media had become a huge source of information for a big chunk of the population. On TT, and on most social media (SM), what you watch is mainly determined by the recommendation algorithm. This algo can hide subjects the SM can't put ad on but also subjects the they don't like and boost the one they do (shadow ban). That how you politicize SM. That about, the first thing Musk did with Twitter (after firing people). When it's a state controlled SM, it's more like foreign interference. There is a lot of books about that. It's documented, not a secret of something. Uyghurs for example, have been a subject of ban on TikTok, shadowing it heavily.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
But it's not foreign interference, it's foreign media. Foreign media is permissible for Americans to choose to consume and guess what, young people lap it up. That's their right
- _ache_ 2y ago
  It could have been if ByteDance wasn't totally state controlled. Also, since TikTok is banned on China, it's not like it exists in China as a media (the Chinese version is called Douyin and basically it's the same as TikTok but with contents from within China only, to not interfere with the Great Firewall). Also, the concept of "choose to consume" is blurring with algorithm recommendation and optimizing dopamine reward to maximize screen time. The CCP didn't control of ByteDance to interference with other countries but to be able to control what happens inside China. But now, it's different.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    But none of that changes the fact that Americans have the right to consume foreign controlled media. Totally state controlled media is legal to consume and spread and even become super popular in the US. I really dislike the idea that if some content is popular in the US and the government thinks the content is bad, they can just ban it. "Algorithmic manipulation" is a red herring. If people like it, they can watch it. If they don't they don't have to. Doesn't matter who makes it or for what reason

spacechild1 2y ago

For example, islamistic propaganda. It's a serious problem, at least here in Europe. You literally see 10-year-olds watching videos of beheadings in the subway. Oh, and I wouldn't say that FB is much better. The EU should probably ban both.

kortilla 2y ago

TikTok is packed full of political propaganda. Controlling which narratives people think are popular is super powerful. It’s called manufacturing consent.

ajrehg 2y ago
So is the Canadian government, especially under Trudeau, which indirectly controls the media organizations through funding. All mainstream articles about the trucker protests were horrific lies (except for the honking, which was indeed disruptive and stupid). I don't care about TikTok, since there is nothing of value there. But will Canada also ban globaltimes.cn now? (The value of the Global Times is to find out what the party in China thinks, not that it is unbiased.)
- kortilla 2y ago
  Both the Canadian media and globaltimes.cn don’t have nearly the screentime or intimate targeting TikTok has. It’s like billboard on the highway vs someone whispering things to you for 2 hours every day.