7 ms·

This (incorrect) attitude is another big reason beyond economy for the D loss.

drekipus 2y ago
as an outsider this is the biggest thing. It's like D-voters don't even understand how unhinged they are. "Everyone is stupid but me" doesn't do anyone any favors and doesn't fix any problem. "I have the makings of a plan" is 100x more attractive to people who need change.
- robotnikman 2y ago
  >"Everyone is stupid but me" doesn't do anyone any favors and doesn't fix any problem. This, this, so much this. No one has ever been persuaded by calling them idiots, bigots, or any other insult. In fact, it does the opposite and drives them further away from what you are trying to persuade them to do/ I recommend people read 'How to win friends and Influence people' and 'Rules for Radicals' if they wish to learn on how to better persuade people.
mistermann 2y ago
Isn't it amazing? "Chat, is this real?"
insane_dreamer 2y ago
If that 5th grader rhetoric, and lack of any comprehensible policy, didn't resonate with Trump voters, he wouldn't have used it consistently. So the criticism is on point. We can debate whether Harris' proposed policies would have worked or not, or good for the economy or not, but at least they were comprehensible.
- kelipso 2y ago
  Harris had proposed policies? That's news to me... Only think I remember is abortion abortion abortion.
  - pajdziu 2y ago
    https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_B... Not a single mention of "abortion" in this document.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    > That's news to me See, this is the problem. Actually, serious policies (meaning, more serious than "drill baby drill" or "build a wall") are long, complicated, and boring. They don't fit neatly into a soundbite or a chant at a rally, so people who don't have the temperament or capacity to seek out and read such documents think the policies don't exist. In seriousness, the solution is that Democrats need to be better at messaging by crafting policies that are understandable to their audience.
    - tarsinge 2y ago
      No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do. That worked for a time in the early 2010s but they have yet to realize that when there are economic troubles it’s not enough to win elections, as this vote demographics show. No need to insult the intellectual capacity of the other camp.
      - hackyhacky 2y ago
        It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.
andrepd 2y ago
It is both factually right (let's face it, the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T), and supremely stupid as a campaign strategy (you have to inspire people to vote in you, if the other guy does it better you fail, no matter how low his rethoric).
- Shocka1 2y ago
  > the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T This fits the Kamala voters well too, but a citation that doesn't exist is probably needed. > you have to inspire people to vote in you, if the other guy does it better you fail, no matter how low his rethoric Agreed here. 8 out of 10 people on both sides wouldn't know what happens to the price of a bond when it's yield increases/decreases, let alone what happens to the price of a consumer product when tariffs are attached to it. My theory is that this election was won through a combination of economic timing due to COVID/inflation, and the left providing perpetual unhinged social media material.
  - andrepd 2y ago
    > This fits the Kamala voters well too It does! > and the left providing perpetual unhinged social media material Well the right also provided such an uninterrupted stream of unhinged material, so
    - Shocka1 2y ago
      And this time they lost the meme war. Apparently it's time to come up with new material.
- 71bw 2y ago
  >It is both factually right (let's face it, the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T) Thank you for your kind words. Don't you think you're generalizing a VERY big group a bit too much?

as an outsider this is the biggest thing. It's like D-voters don't even understand how unhinged they are. "Everyone is stupid but me" doesn't do anyone any favors and doesn't fix any problem. "I have the makings of a plan" is 100x more attractive to people who need change.

robotnikman 2y ago
>"Everyone is stupid but me" doesn't do anyone any favors and doesn't fix any problem. This, this, so much this. No one has ever been persuaded by calling them idiots, bigots, or any other insult. In fact, it does the opposite and drives them further away from what you are trying to persuade them to do/ I recommend people read 'How to win friends and Influence people' and 'Rules for Radicals' if they wish to learn on how to better persuade people.

mistermann 2y ago

Isn't it amazing? "Chat, is this real?"

insane_dreamer 2y ago

If that 5th grader rhetoric, and lack of any comprehensible policy, didn't resonate with Trump voters, he wouldn't have used it consistently. So the criticism is on point. We can debate whether Harris' proposed policies would have worked or not, or good for the economy or not, but at least they were comprehensible.

kelipso 2y ago
Harris had proposed policies? That's news to me... Only think I remember is abortion abortion abortion.
- pajdziu 2y ago
  https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_Book_Economic-Opportunity.pdf https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy_B... Not a single mention of "abortion" in this document.
- hackyhacky 2y ago
  > That's news to me See, this is the problem. Actually, serious policies (meaning, more serious than "drill baby drill" or "build a wall") are long, complicated, and boring. They don't fit neatly into a soundbite or a chant at a rally, so people who don't have the temperament or capacity to seek out and read such documents think the policies don't exist. In seriousness, the solution is that Democrats need to be better at messaging by crafting policies that are understandable to their audience.
  - tarsinge 2y ago
    No, the problem is the medias (and campaign strategists) didn’t even try to communicate on these policies, and again thought social progressivism alone would do. That worked for a time in the early 2010s but they have yet to realize that when there are economic troubles it’s not enough to win elections, as this vote demographics show. No need to insult the intellectual capacity of the other camp.
    - hackyhacky 2y ago
      It's not an insult, and I wasn't addressing either "camp." It's an observation that most people don't have the interest or ability in understanding government policy, and there isn't a good way to communicate the facts of the matter in a way that's accessible to most people. This is a problem of the media, who want everything broken into 30-second sound bites; but of course the media don't exist in a vacuum: they serve the media consumer, who won't listen to anything longer than 30 seconds, which unfortunately isn't enough time to explain the relationship between tariffs and inflation. Voters demand simple explanations for complex realities, and simple solutions to complex problems, and as a result, the successful politician must fabricate simple explanations and simple solutions, even if they're wrong.

andrepd 2y ago

It is both factually right (let's face it, the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T), and supremely stupid as a campaign strategy (you have to inspire people to vote in you, if the other guy does it better you fail, no matter how low his rethoric).

Shocka1 2y ago
> the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T This fits the Kamala voters well too, but a citation that doesn't exist is probably needed. > you have to inspire people to vote in you, if the other guy does it better you fail, no matter how low his rethoric Agreed here. 8 out of 10 people on both sides wouldn't know what happens to the price of a bond when it's yield increases/decreases, let alone what happens to the price of a consumer product when tariffs are attached to it. My theory is that this election was won through a combination of economic timing due to COVID/inflation, and the left providing perpetual unhinged social media material.
- andrepd 2y ago
  > This fits the Kamala voters well too It does! > and the left providing perpetual unhinged social media material Well the right also provided such an uninterrupted stream of unhinged material, so
  - Shocka1 2y ago
    And this time they lost the meme war. Apparently it's time to come up with new material.
71bw 2y ago
>It is both factually right (let's face it, the vast majority of trump voters fit that description to a T) Thank you for your kind words. Don't you think you're generalizing a VERY big group a bit too much?