3 ms·

Not only that, tolls suck for privacy (de facto installation of ALPR cameras, database presumptively controlled by a private company selling the data to anyone

Not only that, tolls suck for privacy (de facto installation of ALPR cameras, database presumptively controlled by a private company selling the data to anyone with money), are a regressive tax on the poor, and are often used to implement "taxation without representation" by sticking the tolls near a state border to extract rents from people not eligible to vote against them. New York has even taken to explicitly charging higher rates to out of state residents, which is of questionable constitutionality.

throwaway48476 2y ago
But think about all the poor politicians who would miss out on their kickbacks.
hirako2000 2y ago
I would like to be able to say that in Europe, tolls are managed by the state, but they aren't.
datavirtue 2y ago
Driving is a privilege. You can walk on the walking road, thingy.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  Driving is a right because travel is a right and walking between two points separated by dozens of miles on a daily basis is about as reasonable a suggestion as "let them eat cake".
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Travel is a right, including interstate travel, but Dixon v Love (among others) have held that personally operating a motor vehicle (“driving”) is a privilege rather than an inherent right. You can take a bus, taxi, or airplane to travel.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > Dixon v Love (among others) have held that personally operating a motor vehicle (“driving”) is a privilege rather than an inherent right. The question in that case is whether someone's license can be suspended after conviction of traffic offenses without a separate hearing on the suspension. Denial of rights is common practice upon conviction of a crime, e.g. unless you've been convicted of a crime you generally have a right not to be incarcerated. > You can take a bus, taxi, or airplane to travel. So if you're a farmer in New Jersey and have to deliver your produce to a farm-to-table restaurant in New York City, which of these is supposed to apply? Also notice how little this has to do with tolls. If your license was suspended you could pay an employee to drive your truck into the city but the E-ZPass tag doesn't care about that.
      - sokoloff 2y ago
        That ruling refers to them as privileges in a direct way (without objection by the Court). Perhaps you could cite the basis upon which you conclude they are legally a right.
        tomrod 2y ago
        Natural rights. Clearly. The Constitution doesn't grant rights, it limits abrogation of certain rights. The right to travel is long established in common law.
        tadfisher 2y ago
        The right to your preferred mode of travel is not.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        You're relying on "preferred" to do all the work there. There are plenty of contexts where cars are the only realistic mode of travel and then it isn't a matter of preference because there isn't any viable alternative.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Not when it is mandatory to function in society. Then, it is a necessary utility.

throwaway48476 2y ago

But think about all the poor politicians who would miss out on their kickbacks.

hirako2000 2y ago

I would like to be able to say that in Europe, tolls are managed by the state, but they aren't.

datavirtue 2y ago

Driving is a privilege. You can walk on the walking road, thingy.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
Driving is a right because travel is a right and walking between two points separated by dozens of miles on a daily basis is about as reasonable a suggestion as "let them eat cake".
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Travel is a right, including interstate travel, but Dixon v Love (among others) have held that personally operating a motor vehicle (“driving”) is a privilege rather than an inherent right. You can take a bus, taxi, or airplane to travel.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > Dixon v Love (among others) have held that personally operating a motor vehicle (“driving”) is a privilege rather than an inherent right. The question in that case is whether someone's license can be suspended after conviction of traffic offenses without a separate hearing on the suspension. Denial of rights is common practice upon conviction of a crime, e.g. unless you've been convicted of a crime you generally have a right not to be incarcerated. > You can take a bus, taxi, or airplane to travel. So if you're a farmer in New Jersey and have to deliver your produce to a farm-to-table restaurant in New York City, which of these is supposed to apply? Also notice how little this has to do with tolls. If your license was suspended you could pay an employee to drive your truck into the city but the E-ZPass tag doesn't care about that.
    - sokoloff 2y ago
      That ruling refers to them as privileges in a direct way (without objection by the Court). Perhaps you could cite the basis upon which you conclude they are legally a right.
      - tomrod 2y ago
        Natural rights. Clearly. The Constitution doesn't grant rights, it limits abrogation of certain rights. The right to travel is long established in common law.
        tadfisher 2y ago
        The right to your preferred mode of travel is not.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        You're relying on "preferred" to do all the work there. There are plenty of contexts where cars are the only realistic mode of travel and then it isn't a matter of preference because there isn't any viable alternative.
tomrod 2y ago
Not when it is mandatory to function in society. Then, it is a necessary utility.