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just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hi

just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hitler's generals so he could just have democrats or others who disagree with him executed

aliasxneo 2y ago
Yes, I said: > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities Although I'm unaware of him asking for Hitler's generals so he could execute democrats, but I'm also not interested in participating in this back-and-forth exchange, as I dislike both administrations.
- chicagobuss 2y ago
  Assuming you're arguing in good faith, here is the transcript from someone who was in the room with Trump when he was saying all of this: > He's looking for obedience. This is the thing that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the president. That's what he's looking for, personal loyalty. And we know that from many other discussions we have heard around him.
  - aliasxneo 2y ago
    The thing is, I'm not trying to argue. What are you hoping to gain from this exchange? I've already said I despise our two-party system and dislike both campaigns and (in another comment) I've been relegated by both sides. My original comment was simply a personal observation that, in this election season, I received far more abuse from one side over the other, and that I was sad to see this same disdain continue here in HN. You may have had a completely different experience, and that's perfectly OK, but I'm honestly confused at the goal with you questioning me about a comment Trump made.
    - sixstringtheory 2y ago
      We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down.
      - x-complexity 2y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42071409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42071409 > just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. It was *exactly* at this moment that the old tactics resurfaced. Instead of just saying "Yes, you're right", a counterfact was brought up to refute OP's original premise. This tactic laid bare how such a conversation like this would end up: With either side just saying "but X said this!", whilst no common ground is established. chicagobuss was not seeking to establish common ground, instead the goal was to construct a fight & win it. ----- > We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down. Because there was no attempt in a genuine exploration of the original premise. The *moment* that aliasxneo tried to break down where the insults came from, instead of examining why the sources were engaging in such rhetoric, chicagobuss barged in with a "but X said this!", and proceeded to engage in a fight instead of an examination of the original premise. The original premise still remains unexamined: Why these circles felt that they could engage in the same tactics as who they hate & not feel repercussions from doing so.
      - aliasxneo 2y ago
        > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities, but I am simply expressing my own opinion as an independent in 2024 that it overwhelmingly came from one side towards _me_ in this election cycle. I added that sentence with the express purpose of acknowledging both sides have participated in harsh rhetoric, but that for me as an independent, it came far more from one side than the other. I was getting dragged into an argument I wasn't interested in pursuing since I had already addressed this perspective (and even explicitly re-quoted it). The commenter's insistence on continuing is what perplexed me, and I don't think my follow-up inquiry was shutting down the conversation.
lonelyanonguy 2y ago
Did Trump actually say this? Is there proof? Can you provide it? I'm genuinely curious if he said that.
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  I did end up trying to research it a bit for my own edification, but I wasn't successful in finding the paraphrase given by the commenter. The closest I came is to an uncorroborated report from one of his staff that quoted him as wanting generals like Hitler's. However, I couldn't find a signal reference that the intent of wanting these generals was to kill democrats. I would be happy for someone to provide more evidence, as I gave up after 10-15 minutes.

aliasxneo 2y ago

Yes, I said: > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities Although I'm unaware of him asking for Hitler's generals so he could execute democrats, but I'm also not interested in participating in this back-and-forth exchange, as I dislike both administrations.

chicagobuss 2y ago
Assuming you're arguing in good faith, here is the transcript from someone who was in the room with Trump when he was saying all of this: > He's looking for obedience. This is the thing that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the president. That's what he's looking for, personal loyalty. And we know that from many other discussions we have heard around him.
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  The thing is, I'm not trying to argue. What are you hoping to gain from this exchange? I've already said I despise our two-party system and dislike both campaigns and (in another comment) I've been relegated by both sides. My original comment was simply a personal observation that, in this election season, I received far more abuse from one side over the other, and that I was sad to see this same disdain continue here in HN. You may have had a completely different experience, and that's perfectly OK, but I'm honestly confused at the goal with you questioning me about a comment Trump made.
  - sixstringtheory 2y ago
    We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down.
    - x-complexity 2y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42071409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42071409 > just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. It was *exactly* at this moment that the old tactics resurfaced. Instead of just saying "Yes, you're right", a counterfact was brought up to refute OP's original premise. This tactic laid bare how such a conversation like this would end up: With either side just saying "but X said this!", whilst no common ground is established. chicagobuss was not seeking to establish common ground, instead the goal was to construct a fight & win it. ----- > We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down. Because there was no attempt in a genuine exploration of the original premise. The *moment* that aliasxneo tried to break down where the insults came from, instead of examining why the sources were engaging in such rhetoric, chicagobuss barged in with a "but X said this!", and proceeded to engage in a fight instead of an examination of the original premise. The original premise still remains unexamined: Why these circles felt that they could engage in the same tactics as who they hate & not feel repercussions from doing so.
    - aliasxneo 2y ago
      > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities, but I am simply expressing my own opinion as an independent in 2024 that it overwhelmingly came from one side towards _me_ in this election cycle. I added that sentence with the express purpose of acknowledging both sides have participated in harsh rhetoric, but that for me as an independent, it came far more from one side than the other. I was getting dragged into an argument I wasn't interested in pursuing since I had already addressed this perspective (and even explicitly re-quoted it). The commenter's insistence on continuing is what perplexed me, and I don't think my follow-up inquiry was shutting down the conversation.

lonelyanonguy 2y ago

Did Trump actually say this? Is there proof? Can you provide it? I'm genuinely curious if he said that.

aliasxneo 2y ago
I did end up trying to research it a bit for my own edification, but I wasn't successful in finding the paraphrase given by the commenter. The closest I came is to an uncorroborated report from one of his staff that quoted him as wanting generals like Hitler's. However, I couldn't find a signal reference that the intent of wanting these generals was to kill democrats. I would be happy for someone to provide more evidence, as I gave up after 10-15 minutes.