4 ms·

This seems like some kind of bizarre/opposite logic to me. You think you'd get a better signal-to-noise ratio from the lulz crowd, and that non-'lulzy' programm

This seems like some kind of bizarre/opposite logic to me. You think you'd get a better signal-to-noise ratio from the lulz crowd, and that non-'lulzy' programmers are more into (marketing?) BS than reading code? I am fascinated by this point of view.

ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
Well, since CS due to good wages has attracted the hipsters that confuses their IQ with the price of their gadget, and that are in average better at communicating (with their so hype websites) than the average hectic programmers, you may want to filter them out, and make fun of them. These self called geeks and gurus are best avoided in projects. I guess the hacked by China joke is like a filter. Real programmers do it for fun. And they not only do it in few words, they also do it with 'finger'. I guess, they are just doing a cultural handshake they try to filter out the morons by sending irrelevant information on one hand (the official website), and another one on the other hand (the doc is concise and clear). For me it is a new divide in programming community: the infatuated hipsters self called geeks vs the mocking nerds. For me it is the sense of the zed shaw's rant on rails, and of the readme and sites of javelin. PS : I belong to the mocking nerds.
- coderdude 14y ago
  It sounds like you mean to imply that iOS developers and Ruby programmers are the hipsters, no? I'm not really familiar with the battle between "hipsters" and "real nerds" in the programming world. My experience has been the opposite of yours in that the lulz crowd is usually the more inexperienced group. There are more dimensions here than just two. The two groups you've described co-exist with many other kinds of programmers. For example, Linus Torvalds is not a mocking nerd or a hipster. I would imagine that many programmers do not identify with the two groups you've described. There are groups of 'serious' and talented programmers, lulzy talented programmers, lulzy hipster programmers, and every combination in between. Shades of gray, as they say.
  - ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
    The divide in CS is about imagination. Some have it, some don't. Some see shades of gray, some sees a rainbow of colours and even the ones that are not in the visible spectrum, I'd say.
    - zaptheimpaler 14y ago
      Could you elaborate on this? Seems like an interesting point.
      - ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
        Yes, it is about ideas not words. You can learn the word, it does not forcibly tell you about the ideas. Especially the new one. If a software has been done, buy it! It will be almost always less expensive than building it. If it has not been done yet, no book or knowledge can tell you how to do it. And if an idea you can code is new, you'll hardly have the word for it. It is easier to brag about «well (re)known ideas» than doing new stuff. Colours you can't see are ideas we have not yet the word to describe them to those who can't see them.
  - robertocr 14y ago
    (shades of different colors, actually.) well put.
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    > Linus Torvalds is not a mocking nerd Really? I thought he notorious for abrasive replies telling people they're idiots for using C++, etc.
    - ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
      http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
    - coderdude 14y ago
      Linus cuts through the crap and no longer sugarcoats his responses. After having to deal with so many idiots day in and day out he just doesn't waste his time with it. I'd say that's different from the 'lulzy mocking nerd' that the parent commenter describes.
- scott_s 14y ago
  By placing prejudicial emphasis on factors other than ability, you're acting like what you criticize.
- mattacular 14y ago
  What the fuck did I just read... the programming world is not defined by some childishly perceived game of US vs. THEM. Can you take this drivel elsewhere please? Hipsters? Nerds? Geeks? These pointless monikers don't say anything about someone's true programming aptitude. You're doing yourself and everyone else a disservice by acting like that these stereotypes exist.
  - heretohelp 14y ago
    So it's okay to pretend these stereotypes exist as long as we're talking about brogrammers and women, but not when it concerns hipsters and nerds?

ObnoxiousJul 14y ago

Well, since CS due to good wages has attracted the hipsters that confuses their IQ with the price of their gadget, and that are in average better at communicating (with their so hype websites) than the average hectic programmers, you may want to filter them out, and make fun of them. These self called geeks and gurus are best avoided in projects. I guess the hacked by China joke is like a filter. Real programmers do it for fun. And they not only do it in few words, they also do it with 'finger'. I guess, they are just doing a cultural handshake they try to filter out the morons by sending irrelevant information on one hand (the official website), and another one on the other hand (the doc is concise and clear). For me it is a new divide in programming community: the infatuated hipsters self called geeks vs the mocking nerds. For me it is the sense of the zed shaw's rant on rails, and of the readme and sites of javelin. PS : I belong to the mocking nerds.

coderdude 14y ago
It sounds like you mean to imply that iOS developers and Ruby programmers are the hipsters, no? I'm not really familiar with the battle between "hipsters" and "real nerds" in the programming world. My experience has been the opposite of yours in that the lulz crowd is usually the more inexperienced group. There are more dimensions here than just two. The two groups you've described co-exist with many other kinds of programmers. For example, Linus Torvalds is not a mocking nerd or a hipster. I would imagine that many programmers do not identify with the two groups you've described. There are groups of 'serious' and talented programmers, lulzy talented programmers, lulzy hipster programmers, and every combination in between. Shades of gray, as they say.
- ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
  The divide in CS is about imagination. Some have it, some don't. Some see shades of gray, some sees a rainbow of colours and even the ones that are not in the visible spectrum, I'd say.
  - zaptheimpaler 14y ago
    Could you elaborate on this? Seems like an interesting point.
    - ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
      Yes, it is about ideas not words. You can learn the word, it does not forcibly tell you about the ideas. Especially the new one. If a software has been done, buy it! It will be almost always less expensive than building it. If it has not been done yet, no book or knowledge can tell you how to do it. And if an idea you can code is new, you'll hardly have the word for it. It is easier to brag about «well (re)known ideas» than doing new stuff. Colours you can't see are ideas we have not yet the word to describe them to those who can't see them.
- robertocr 14y ago
  (shades of different colors, actually.) well put.
- kalleboo 14y ago
  > Linus Torvalds is not a mocking nerd Really? I thought he notorious for abrasive replies telling people they're idiots for using C++, etc.
  - ObnoxiousJul 14y ago
    http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
  - coderdude 14y ago
    Linus cuts through the crap and no longer sugarcoats his responses. After having to deal with so many idiots day in and day out he just doesn't waste his time with it. I'd say that's different from the 'lulzy mocking nerd' that the parent commenter describes.
scott_s 14y ago
By placing prejudicial emphasis on factors other than ability, you're acting like what you criticize.
mattacular 14y ago
What the fuck did I just read... the programming world is not defined by some childishly perceived game of US vs. THEM. Can you take this drivel elsewhere please? Hipsters? Nerds? Geeks? These pointless monikers don't say anything about someone's true programming aptitude. You're doing yourself and everyone else a disservice by acting like that these stereotypes exist.
- heretohelp 14y ago
  So it's okay to pretend these stereotypes exist as long as we're talking about brogrammers and women, but not when it concerns hipsters and nerds?