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Still incredibly isolated with the thin veil of being interactive because you get likes or whatever. We've traded social connection for micro-dopamine hits. A

Still incredibly isolated with the thin veil of being interactive because you get likes or whatever. We've traded social connection for micro-dopamine hits. And I don't think I'm being an old man shouting at clouds. I think it's genuinely worse.

lmm 2y ago
That's what the old men shouting at clouds always think. "Social connection" and "micro-dopamine hits" are two different phrases for the same thing. Connections through social media apps can be every bit as deep and genuine as those made through standing in the same building.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  It's not particularly deep and genuine to double-tap to add a heart emoji to a video of a skimpily dressed complete stranger you "met" 5 seconds ago and will never see again unless Tiktok's algorithms think that would result in greater ad revenue.
  - lmm 2y ago
    It's exactly as deep and genuine as saying hi to a stranger in a bar (and if you think the barman is any less profit-oriented than the Tiktok algorithm you're naive) or whatever the back-in-your-day paradigm was.
    - teractiveodular 2y ago
      If you say hi to a stranger in a bar, you might end up in an interesting conversation, get laid, find a life partner, all sorts of things. Liking a booty shake video from some thirst trap influencer is exceedingly unlikely to result in any of these.
      - lmm 2y ago
        Liking a video (and if all your videos are booty shakes from first trap influencers that says more about you than about the platform) might end you up in an interesting conversation, getting laid, finding a life partner, all sorts of things. Saying hi to a stranger in a bar is exceedingly unlikely to result in any of these.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        What? I’m sorry but this is just nonsense. There’s no way liking a video is more likely to result in those things than having a face to face interaction so someone
        lmm 2y ago
        A shallow interaction is unlikely to lead to something deeper but occasionally things line up and it becomes the start of a beautiful friendship. That's equally true on social media or AFK. Maybe introducing yourself in-person is slightly deeper than thumbs-upping someone's video, but by the same token the latter is a smaller step; you can always go with a full-sentence comment or a video response of your own if you want the slightly deeper interaction.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        I’m confused on how this isn’t just completely walking back on your previous point
        lmm 2y ago
        Shallow interactions are shallow, deep interactions are deep, equally shallow interactions are equally shallow whether online or offline and the same for equally deep interactions. I'm not going to argue about what specific action corresponds to the precise depth of pushing like, whether it's saying "hi", grunting, making eye contact, or what have you; both online and offline you have a spectrum of ways to interact and having both shallow and deep options available is important, because you wouldn't want to start at the deep end with a stranger; you start with something shallow and most of the time it stays shallow but occasionally you find it worthwhile to turn it into something deeper.
    - kredd 2y ago
      I’ve talked to hundreds of people at bars around the world, and although I don’t remember their names, I can recall general conversations with each of them. I can’t recall anything that I’ve tapped-liked off the top of my head, because it’s very short and one-sided interaction.
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      Well, saying hi isn't deep at some meat market bar. But I remember in my younger days that my now-wife and I went to the same bar often enough that we knew most of the regulars, and she was talking to someone we knew well, so I was on my own. I chatted up a woman who was probably 20 years my senior, and the two of us had grown up in the same neighborhood in that city separated only by time. We had a wonderful conversation for an hour or so. My now-wife came over at one point, I said we were having a conversation about my neighborhood, and she said, oh, you people always find each other (it was pretty distinctive in the city, and yes, we really did find each other). Now-wife walked away and went back to the others she had been hanging out with. I knew the exact house this woman had grown up in (it was one block away from where I was living at the time), having ridden my bicycle past it hundreds of times as a kid, and just listened to the stories of what it had been like then. The bartender played no role in it at all. You won't have that experience on TikTok.
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- watwut 2y ago
  Except that TikTok dancing does not create those connections. It is just something that does not happen. Standarding in the same building does not create then either. People talking in groups and one-to-one, people meeting the same people regularly does. That is what dancing was.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > Except that TikTok dancing does not create those connections. It is just something that does not happen. I've seen it happen, so it absolutely can. People have back-and-forth interactions, find regular partners, and form dance groups.
    - swiftcoder 2y ago
      If you are talking about connections between people who both create content on the network, sure - however, the vast majority of users only consume content.
      - lmm 2y ago
        I've seen people start creating content because of a conversation they had on that kind of network.
- tivert 2y ago
  > That's what the old men shouting at clouds always think. And they're usually right. It's just that subsequent generations mainly see the new normal and forget. > "Social connection" and "micro-dopamine hits" are two different phrases for the same thing. No. It's like the difference between a piece of good chocolate cake and some sugar cubes. > Connections through social media apps can be every bit as deep and genuine as those made through standing in the same building. It's possible, but far less likely.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Can be. But it's like a long distance relationship. We already know from decades of offline phenomenon that constant physical connect is a must for a healthy, strong connection. Yes, some people have the discipline to make it work. Most don't. And that's been my experience online. Lots of neat niche connections with people I'd never meet IRL. But you'd be surprised how quickly that connect can sever when that person leaves the community, even if you keep trying to reach out. But i don't know, maybe this gen Z figured out something this boomer Millenial and other older generations couldn't. I'm open to being wrong.

lmm 2y ago

That's what the old men shouting at clouds always think. "Social connection" and "micro-dopamine hits" are two different phrases for the same thing. Connections through social media apps can be every bit as deep and genuine as those made through standing in the same building.

teractiveodular 2y ago
It's not particularly deep and genuine to double-tap to add a heart emoji to a video of a skimpily dressed complete stranger you "met" 5 seconds ago and will never see again unless Tiktok's algorithms think that would result in greater ad revenue.
- lmm 2y ago
  It's exactly as deep and genuine as saying hi to a stranger in a bar (and if you think the barman is any less profit-oriented than the Tiktok algorithm you're naive) or whatever the back-in-your-day paradigm was.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    If you say hi to a stranger in a bar, you might end up in an interesting conversation, get laid, find a life partner, all sorts of things. Liking a booty shake video from some thirst trap influencer is exceedingly unlikely to result in any of these.
    - lmm 2y ago
      Liking a video (and if all your videos are booty shakes from first trap influencers that says more about you than about the platform) might end you up in an interesting conversation, getting laid, finding a life partner, all sorts of things. Saying hi to a stranger in a bar is exceedingly unlikely to result in any of these.
      - bowsamic 2y ago
        What? I’m sorry but this is just nonsense. There’s no way liking a video is more likely to result in those things than having a face to face interaction so someone
        lmm 2y ago
        A shallow interaction is unlikely to lead to something deeper but occasionally things line up and it becomes the start of a beautiful friendship. That's equally true on social media or AFK. Maybe introducing yourself in-person is slightly deeper than thumbs-upping someone's video, but by the same token the latter is a smaller step; you can always go with a full-sentence comment or a video response of your own if you want the slightly deeper interaction.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        I’m confused on how this isn’t just completely walking back on your previous point
        lmm 2y ago
        Shallow interactions are shallow, deep interactions are deep, equally shallow interactions are equally shallow whether online or offline and the same for equally deep interactions. I'm not going to argue about what specific action corresponds to the precise depth of pushing like, whether it's saying "hi", grunting, making eye contact, or what have you; both online and offline you have a spectrum of ways to interact and having both shallow and deep options available is important, because you wouldn't want to start at the deep end with a stranger; you start with something shallow and most of the time it stays shallow but occasionally you find it worthwhile to turn it into something deeper.
  - kredd 2y ago
    I’ve talked to hundreds of people at bars around the world, and although I don’t remember their names, I can recall general conversations with each of them. I can’t recall anything that I’ve tapped-liked off the top of my head, because it’s very short and one-sided interaction.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    Well, saying hi isn't deep at some meat market bar. But I remember in my younger days that my now-wife and I went to the same bar often enough that we knew most of the regulars, and she was talking to someone we knew well, so I was on my own. I chatted up a woman who was probably 20 years my senior, and the two of us had grown up in the same neighborhood in that city separated only by time. We had a wonderful conversation for an hour or so. My now-wife came over at one point, I said we were having a conversation about my neighborhood, and she said, oh, you people always find each other (it was pretty distinctive in the city, and yes, we really did find each other). Now-wife walked away and went back to the others she had been hanging out with. I knew the exact house this woman had grown up in (it was one block away from where I was living at the time), having ridden my bicycle past it hundreds of times as a kid, and just listened to the stories of what it had been like then. The bartender played no role in it at all. You won't have that experience on TikTok.
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watwut 2y ago
Except that TikTok dancing does not create those connections. It is just something that does not happen. Standarding in the same building does not create then either. People talking in groups and one-to-one, people meeting the same people regularly does. That is what dancing was.
- lmm 2y ago
  > Except that TikTok dancing does not create those connections. It is just something that does not happen. I've seen it happen, so it absolutely can. People have back-and-forth interactions, find regular partners, and form dance groups.
  - swiftcoder 2y ago
    If you are talking about connections between people who both create content on the network, sure - however, the vast majority of users only consume content.
    - lmm 2y ago
      I've seen people start creating content because of a conversation they had on that kind of network.
tivert 2y ago
> That's what the old men shouting at clouds always think. And they're usually right. It's just that subsequent generations mainly see the new normal and forget. > "Social connection" and "micro-dopamine hits" are two different phrases for the same thing. No. It's like the difference between a piece of good chocolate cake and some sugar cubes. > Connections through social media apps can be every bit as deep and genuine as those made through standing in the same building. It's possible, but far less likely.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Can be. But it's like a long distance relationship. We already know from decades of offline phenomenon that constant physical connect is a must for a healthy, strong connection. Yes, some people have the discipline to make it work. Most don't. And that's been my experience online. Lots of neat niche connections with people I'd never meet IRL. But you'd be surprised how quickly that connect can sever when that person leaves the community, even if you keep trying to reach out. But i don't know, maybe this gen Z figured out something this boomer Millenial and other older generations couldn't. I'm open to being wrong.