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> Voter ID, which most democratic countries require, seems like an incredibly modest step. As always, you should ask "what purpose does this serve?" Do we need
by jmyeet 2y ago
> Voter ID, which most democratic countries require, seems like an incredibly modest step.
As always, you should ask "what purpose does this serve?" Do we need voter ID laws? Well, is there a widespread voter fraud problem? No [1].
When you declare something to be "common sense", you betray either a lack of knowledge of why something is the way it is, you know why it's like that but you're willing to lie about it to push an agenda or you have a position of privilege where something doesn't affect you so you just don't care.
So if voter fraud isn't a widespread problem, you should then ask who is pushing for this and why? Also, why are things the way they are?
A big part is that as many as 7% of Americans don't have the documents required to prove their birth or citizenship [2]. So Voter ID laws disenfranchise a right (voting) to millions of people.
Voter ID is really about voter suppression. Why? Because you need ID to register and vote. If you don't have it, you lose that right. If you think those people are more likely to vote against your interests, you do what you can do make sure they can't vote.
As a real example, Alabama has Voter ID laws but in certain counties that have a large black population, the DMV (where you would have to go to get a valid ID) was only open one day a month [3].
That's entirely intentional. Make it difficult to get an ID then it's less likely you'll vote.
[1]: https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-c...
[2]: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/millions-americans-dont-have-documents-proving-their-citizenship-readily https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/mill...
[3]: https://www.governing.com/archive/drivers-license-offices-will-reopen-on-limited-basis.html https://www.governing.com/archive/drivers-license-offices-wi...
- tmn 2y agoYou’re going to lose people at the first point. You don’t believe there is fraud. But others do (or believe there could be in the future)
- Lord-Jobo 2y agoHis first point was sourced with evidence, something every single one of these "believers" has failed to produce, time and time again .
- tmn 2y agoI don't have a horse in this race. I just think it's easy to find stuff online to back whatever you want to back. https://electionfraud.heritage.org/ https://electionfraud.heritage.org/ Is the above site BS?
- jwiz 2y agoThat site seems to be making the argument that there are non-zero amounts of voter fraud. I don't think anybody thinks there is zero voter fraud. The position of OP was that there is not widespread voter fraud.
- runako 2y agoIf you read through the examples on that site, it's actually pretty difficult to find any that have anything to do with ID. There's things like: - felon (this appears to be far & away the most common) - moved - shouldn't have even been allowed to register - voted twice - illegally delivered absentee ballot for another person (while not claiming to be that person) - etc. The common theme, aside from the absolute rarity of these events (e.g. 36 total in GA over perhaps 40 million votes over ~25 years), is that none of them would be addressed by more stringent identity verification checks at either registration or at the polls. Clicking through the site, I actually am unable to find a single instance where enhanced ID would have helped. Not saying they aren't in there, just that apparently they are very rare events, even in a dataset of extremely rare events.
- jmyeet 2y ago> Is the above site BS? Yes and no. Mostly yes [1]. The first thing to note is that it comes from the Heritage Foundation. Project 2025 [2] comes form the Heritage Foundation. Trump's 3 Supreme Court nominees were chosen from a Heritage Foundation list [3][4]. The Heritage Foundation is largely responsible folr the 50 year Republican project to turn the USA into (quite literally) a white theocracy. Now that doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong. it's just like a reverse appeal to authority fallacy. But you should be immediately skeptical and scrutinize everything they say because there is obvious and historic bias. Nobody, including myself, has calimed there is zero voter fraud. There are isolated cases and that's impossible to prevent. Interestingly, if you look into those individual cases, it's largely right-leaning people doing things like being registered in two states and voting twice or filling in their ailing parents' absentee ballots. So the Heritage Foundation is just blowing isolated cases of voter fraud to imply it's a widespread problem in order to push an agenda aimed at voter suppression. [1]: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/people-who-brought-you-project-2025-manufactured-evidence-voter-fraud https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/peop... [2]: https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FUL... [3]: https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/group-behind-trump-scotus-picks-brought-in-nearly-50-million-in-secret-money/ https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/cre... [4]: https://www.heritage.org/impact/supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-was-included-the-list-the-heritage-foundation-helped https://www.heritage.org/impact/supreme-court-nominee-brett-...
- eyeinthepyramid 2y agoAre we supposed to deal in good faith with people who believe things for which there is no evidence? Some people also believe in a flat Earth.