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Of course she doesn't. But, can she express that without saying it in a way that says "I hate immigrants"? This is what I'm pointing out. Having republican bel

Of course she doesn't. But, can she express that without saying it in a way that says "I hate immigrants"? This is what I'm pointing out. Having republican beliefs is fine. Can republicans voice those beliefs without bigotry? Often no. For Trump, certainly not. For many, they can't either. If you just say "Trump addresses immigrant better", then okay. If you say "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, we have to clean up our country" then... yeah you're getting pulled into HR.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
I have never heard Trump say he hates immigrants. His wife is literally an immigrant. Do you actually believe he hates immigrants? Actually hating immigrants and being politically (and sometimes factually) incorrect are two different things. The latter is forgivable.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  It's essentially the first thing he said when he kicked off his campaign in 2015.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    > It's essentially So he didn't say it.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      This may be news to you, but human language is often nuanced and indirect. It is a perfectly reasonable short-hand to say that he hates immigrants when his political career was launched on painting them as criminals, drug dealers, and rapists. This kind of "but he didn't actually say the word hate" pedantry is unconvincing.
      - cynicalpeace 2y ago
        His wife is literally an immigrant
        sanderjd 2y ago
        First of all, what makes you think he doesn't hate his wife? He has treated every woman in his life, including Melania, like trash. But you're right, even in that speech, he is pretty explicit about which kinds of immigrants he doesn't like; the ones from south of the border. He doesn't seem to have a problem with white immigrants. Thing is, I think it's true that racism isn't close to being the thing driving the political realignment since he came on the scene, but that doesn't mean it's false that he's racist. Both things can be true.
        valval 2y ago
        > He has treated every woman in his life like trash This is a lie. > he is pretty explicit about which kinds of immigrants he doesn't like; the ones from south of the border. This is a lie. We're tired of your lies. Do you not get it? When will you get it?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        sanderjd 2y ago
        Ok.
        consteval 2y ago
        Could you articulate exactly how these are lies? I've heard Trump say many, many vile things about women. Certainly, almost everything Trump has said in the context of women cannot be repeated in a professional environment. If I talk like Trump at work, I am liable to get fired. And this doesn't even touch on him being convicted of rape by a jury of his peers. He's also said vile things about immigrants and even naturalized American citizens. He's peddled propaganda about Obama not being a true American, undoubtedly on account of his skin color. He's questioned Kamala's blackness in very offensive ways, too. Not only does he speak poorly about immigrants, he treats black and Latino Americans like garbage. Sometimes his campaign outright calls them garbage. After a certain point, Trump's misogyny and racism is undeniable. When people do deny it, I either favorably think they are ignorant to all he has said or their brains are detaching from reality. I would hope it's the former, in which case that no longer works because I've just informed you. If it is the latter, I recommend therapy to begin to address the delusions you have formed.
  - kthielen 2y ago
    For some reason you're willing to drop the context. He's talking about people coming through the border without being vetted, who are dangerous to the country. Do you think that people should be able to come into the country freely without any vetting at all? He was pointing out a specific problem, maybe your imagination turned that into the much more general "all immigrants are bad" when he's never actually said or suggested anything of the kind?
- consteval 2y ago
  Calling people criminals, dangerous, insinuating they eat house pets, etc, counts. Just like you don't need to say "I hate women" to be a misogynist, you don't need to say "I hate immigrants" to send that message. You just don't. Also I don't care about Melania. "I have a black friend" type arguments are shallow and worthless.
  - valval 2y ago
    Why does this not lead you to believe that he dislikes immigrants who are criminal, dangerous, or eat house pets? Why do you think it represents his attitudes towards all immigrants? In reality, when Trump talks about immigrants he talks about illegal and problematic individuals. On top of that, he also talks about not immigrants a lot.
    - consteval 2y ago
      [flagged]
kthielen 2y ago
> If you say "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, we have to clean up our country" then... yeah you're getting pulled into HR. Trump was just repeating the same thing that many other people heard, a resident at a town council meeting in Springfield, Ohio claimed that some group of migrants there had eaten someone's pets. Was it true? Who knows? People tend to repeat a lot of things they hear but haven't verified themselves. For example in that same debate, David Muir falsely repeated the lie that crime was down nationally. Do we take David Muir to HR? That kind of obvious logical inconsistency, coupled with the assumption of moral authority (which for whatever reason seems to be the subtext for so many of these conversations), rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
- consteval 2y ago
  > Trump was just repeating... So then Trump didn't do his own research and will pretty much just believe anything? Wow, it sounds like you think Trump is an idiot. I don't understand this line of thinking from conservatives. When Trump is criticized on the things he himself has said people will argue we shouldn't listen to Trump, because he is stupid and he lies. So he's stupid and he lies... and yet you support him? Either he is a strong leader, in which case we should take what he says at face value, or he is a fraudster, in which case we should expect misinformation. You can't have both. Talking down about the person you support reflects very poorly on you. > David Muir falsely repeated the lie that crime was down nationally Crime IS down nationally. And you understand this isn't the type of thing that would get you fired from a job? While people on the left may often be wrong, they aren't wrong in a way that can be interpreted as racism, sexism, or homophobia. This won't get you sent to HR - and that's the difference. Conservatives have a really hard time supporting their position without using tools which are unacceptable in professional environment. If you don't support immigration, then great! Now defend that without racist rhetoric. Trump can't do it, so if that's your role model then you better find someone else.

cynicalpeace 2y ago

I have never heard Trump say he hates immigrants. His wife is literally an immigrant. Do you actually believe he hates immigrants? Actually hating immigrants and being politically (and sometimes factually) incorrect are two different things. The latter is forgivable.

sanderjd 2y ago
It's essentially the first thing he said when he kicked off his campaign in 2015.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  > It's essentially So he didn't say it.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    This may be news to you, but human language is often nuanced and indirect. It is a perfectly reasonable short-hand to say that he hates immigrants when his political career was launched on painting them as criminals, drug dealers, and rapists. This kind of "but he didn't actually say the word hate" pedantry is unconvincing.
    - cynicalpeace 2y ago
      His wife is literally an immigrant
      - sanderjd 2y ago
        First of all, what makes you think he doesn't hate his wife? He has treated every woman in his life, including Melania, like trash. But you're right, even in that speech, he is pretty explicit about which kinds of immigrants he doesn't like; the ones from south of the border. He doesn't seem to have a problem with white immigrants. Thing is, I think it's true that racism isn't close to being the thing driving the political realignment since he came on the scene, but that doesn't mean it's false that he's racist. Both things can be true.
        valval 2y ago
        > He has treated every woman in his life like trash This is a lie. > he is pretty explicit about which kinds of immigrants he doesn't like; the ones from south of the border. This is a lie. We're tired of your lies. Do you not get it? When will you get it?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        sanderjd 2y ago
        Ok.
        consteval 2y ago
        Could you articulate exactly how these are lies? I've heard Trump say many, many vile things about women. Certainly, almost everything Trump has said in the context of women cannot be repeated in a professional environment. If I talk like Trump at work, I am liable to get fired. And this doesn't even touch on him being convicted of rape by a jury of his peers. He's also said vile things about immigrants and even naturalized American citizens. He's peddled propaganda about Obama not being a true American, undoubtedly on account of his skin color. He's questioned Kamala's blackness in very offensive ways, too. Not only does he speak poorly about immigrants, he treats black and Latino Americans like garbage. Sometimes his campaign outright calls them garbage. After a certain point, Trump's misogyny and racism is undeniable. When people do deny it, I either favorably think they are ignorant to all he has said or their brains are detaching from reality. I would hope it's the former, in which case that no longer works because I've just informed you. If it is the latter, I recommend therapy to begin to address the delusions you have formed.
- kthielen 2y ago
  For some reason you're willing to drop the context. He's talking about people coming through the border without being vetted, who are dangerous to the country. Do you think that people should be able to come into the country freely without any vetting at all? He was pointing out a specific problem, maybe your imagination turned that into the much more general "all immigrants are bad" when he's never actually said or suggested anything of the kind?
consteval 2y ago
Calling people criminals, dangerous, insinuating they eat house pets, etc, counts. Just like you don't need to say "I hate women" to be a misogynist, you don't need to say "I hate immigrants" to send that message. You just don't. Also I don't care about Melania. "I have a black friend" type arguments are shallow and worthless.
- valval 2y ago
  Why does this not lead you to believe that he dislikes immigrants who are criminal, dangerous, or eat house pets? Why do you think it represents his attitudes towards all immigrants? In reality, when Trump talks about immigrants he talks about illegal and problematic individuals. On top of that, he also talks about not immigrants a lot.
  - consteval 2y ago
    [flagged]

kthielen 2y ago

> If you say "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, we have to clean up our country" then... yeah you're getting pulled into HR. Trump was just repeating the same thing that many other people heard, a resident at a town council meeting in Springfield, Ohio claimed that some group of migrants there had eaten someone's pets. Was it true? Who knows? People tend to repeat a lot of things they hear but haven't verified themselves. For example in that same debate, David Muir falsely repeated the lie that crime was down nationally. Do we take David Muir to HR? That kind of obvious logical inconsistency, coupled with the assumption of moral authority (which for whatever reason seems to be the subtext for so many of these conversations), rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

consteval 2y ago
> Trump was just repeating... So then Trump didn't do his own research and will pretty much just believe anything? Wow, it sounds like you think Trump is an idiot. I don't understand this line of thinking from conservatives. When Trump is criticized on the things he himself has said people will argue we shouldn't listen to Trump, because he is stupid and he lies. So he's stupid and he lies... and yet you support him? Either he is a strong leader, in which case we should take what he says at face value, or he is a fraudster, in which case we should expect misinformation. You can't have both. Talking down about the person you support reflects very poorly on you. > David Muir falsely repeated the lie that crime was down nationally Crime IS down nationally. And you understand this isn't the type of thing that would get you fired from a job? While people on the left may often be wrong, they aren't wrong in a way that can be interpreted as racism, sexism, or homophobia. This won't get you sent to HR - and that's the difference. Conservatives have a really hard time supporting their position without using tools which are unacceptable in professional environment. If you don't support immigration, then great! Now defend that without racist rhetoric. Trump can't do it, so if that's your role model then you better find someone else.