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I'm genuinely curious - can you elaborate on "constantly being talking down to? insulted as a white supremacist, nazi?" Does this happen to you in personal conv

I'm genuinely curious - can you elaborate on "constantly being talking down to? insulted as a white supremacist, nazi?" Does this happen to you in personal conversations with family members or with friends who are left? Or are you referring to broader culture in general, like the Harris' campaign, because if so, can you elaborate on the time Harris or Biden "talked down" to you? As a sidenote I realize Biden made that garbage comment which came across to me as a misconstrued sentence that is common with Biden's speech impediment. But even if not, Trump has said a lot of terrible things about left leaning people like myself. Is your standard as equivically disdainful of Trump's comments, and if not, why not? I guess I just find it wild you're appealing to civil discourse when the winner of this election does very little civil discourse, by his own admission.

aliasxneo 2y ago
In terms of face-to-face conversations, I've never once had these insults thrown at me. This is somewhat expected, as in my experience, most people are far less confrontational in these situations. I would say a majority of it comes from: - Group "watercooler" discussions at work where people parrot vilifying language that targets groups I identify with (I do work at a _very_ left-leaning workplace) - Community events that I have participated in, where people were not necessarily attacking me personally, but were hurling insults at our group - The media. This one is fairly self-documenting. As I mentioned in another reply, since I fall in the middle, I often get negative rhetoric from both sides. But only one has stooped to the levels of vitriol that have often left me shocked (for example, that I should forcibly have my genitals removed so as to prevent procreation).
- chicagobuss 2y ago
  just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hitler's generals so he could just have democrats or others who disagree with him executed
  - aliasxneo 2y ago
    Yes, I said: > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities Although I'm unaware of him asking for Hitler's generals so he could execute democrats, but I'm also not interested in participating in this back-and-forth exchange, as I dislike both administrations.
    - chicagobuss 2y ago
      Assuming you're arguing in good faith, here is the transcript from someone who was in the room with Trump when he was saying all of this: > He's looking for obedience. This is the thing that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the president. That's what he's looking for, personal loyalty. And we know that from many other discussions we have heard around him.
      - aliasxneo 2y ago
        The thing is, I'm not trying to argue. What are you hoping to gain from this exchange? I've already said I despise our two-party system and dislike both campaigns and (in another comment) I've been relegated by both sides. My original comment was simply a personal observation that, in this election season, I received far more abuse from one side over the other, and that I was sad to see this same disdain continue here in HN. You may have had a completely different experience, and that's perfectly OK, but I'm honestly confused at the goal with you questioning me about a comment Trump made.
        sixstringtheory 2y ago
        We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down.
        2y ago
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Obama: "Clinging to guns and religion". Clinton: "Basket of deplorables". Biden: "Garbage". HN, all over this thread: "How could people be so stupid?" In the Democratic Party, there's a long, deep thread of contempt for everyone who doesn't agree. They're supposed to be the party that represents the little guy, but if you're a little guy who thinks abortion is morally wrong, or who doesn't think gay marriage is a good idea, or who doesn't think trans women should be in womens' sports or womens' restrooms, then they don't represent you, and they aren't going to. Instead, they view you as a moral leper, whose only proper action is to repent, and whose culture should be completely eradicated. If you're on the receiving end of that kind of attitude, it's a fairly normal response to flip them the bird and vote for the other guy. To all the people who are saying, "how could they be so stupid?", I say: "How could you be so stupid? What did you think was going to happen?" If you want to win elections, start by not holding in contempt the people you claim to represent. Stop telling them what they're supposed to think, and what they're supposed to value, and what they're supposed to believe. Instead, find out what they think and value and believe, and then represent that.
- altpaddle 2y ago
  That's fair to call our democrats when they say things with contempt but is this not a phenomenon that happens from both sides now? What about when JD Vance calls out 'miserable childless cat ladies'? Donald Trump is a person who more so than anyone else I know of in American history is filled with grievance and contempt. Right leaning supporters online love to throw around contemptuous terms like groomer, pedophile, cuck, soyboy etc
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Of course it's a problem when Trump and Vance do it. But to me, the difference is this: Vance said "miserable childless cat ladies" about people who were Harris supporters. They already weren't going to vote for Trump. But the Democrats are pointing contempt at people that have, historically, been the Democrats' core constituency. Vance is alienating Harris voters, Democrats are alienating their own voters. In that way, it's different. It's not morally different - contempt is contempt - but it's practically different.
returningfory2 2y ago
> As a sidenote I realize Biden made that garbage comment which came across to me as a misconstrued sentence that is common with Biden's speech impediment. Honestly, is this because of his speech impediment or because Biden is just really old and unable to function anywhere close to 100%? I mention this because another angle of "talked down to" is a sense that the Democrats have gaslit the country on a number of issues, most clearly on Biden's age. We now know that Biden has declined cognitively since becoming President. We now know that his inner circle and the media around him engaged in small "cover up" to hide his decline. One element of this "cover up" was explaining his behavior as a result of his speech impediment. Of course, the debate spoke for itself and the whole thing came crashing down.

aliasxneo 2y ago

In terms of face-to-face conversations, I've never once had these insults thrown at me. This is somewhat expected, as in my experience, most people are far less confrontational in these situations. I would say a majority of it comes from: - Group "watercooler" discussions at work where people parrot vilifying language that targets groups I identify with (I do work at a _very_ left-leaning workplace) - Community events that I have participated in, where people were not necessarily attacking me personally, but were hurling insults at our group - The media. This one is fairly self-documenting. As I mentioned in another reply, since I fall in the middle, I often get negative rhetoric from both sides. But only one has stooped to the levels of vitriol that have often left me shocked (for example, that I should forcibly have my genitals removed so as to prevent procreation).

chicagobuss 2y ago
just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hitler's generals so he could just have democrats or others who disagree with him executed
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  Yes, I said: > And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities Although I'm unaware of him asking for Hitler's generals so he could execute democrats, but I'm also not interested in participating in this back-and-forth exchange, as I dislike both administrations.
  - chicagobuss 2y ago
    Assuming you're arguing in good faith, here is the transcript from someone who was in the room with Trump when he was saying all of this: > He's looking for obedience. This is the thing that shocks him about American generals and continues to shock him, is that they swear an oath to the Constitution, not to the president. That's what he's looking for, personal loyalty. And we know that from many other discussions we have heard around him.
    - aliasxneo 2y ago
      The thing is, I'm not trying to argue. What are you hoping to gain from this exchange? I've already said I despise our two-party system and dislike both campaigns and (in another comment) I've been relegated by both sides. My original comment was simply a personal observation that, in this election season, I received far more abuse from one side over the other, and that I was sad to see this same disdain continue here in HN. You may have had a completely different experience, and that's perfectly OK, but I'm honestly confused at the goal with you questioning me about a comment Trump made.
      - sixstringtheory 2y ago
        We’re so close to understanding each other here. People have validated your experience, and then said hey, we feel it too. Yet when they try to have the same conversation and seek validation of their own experience, you decide that’s the time to shut the conversation down.
        2y ago

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

Obama: "Clinging to guns and religion". Clinton: "Basket of deplorables". Biden: "Garbage". HN, all over this thread: "How could people be so stupid?" In the Democratic Party, there's a long, deep thread of contempt for everyone who doesn't agree. They're supposed to be the party that represents the little guy, but if you're a little guy who thinks abortion is morally wrong, or who doesn't think gay marriage is a good idea, or who doesn't think trans women should be in womens' sports or womens' restrooms, then they don't represent you, and they aren't going to. Instead, they view you as a moral leper, whose only proper action is to repent, and whose culture should be completely eradicated. If you're on the receiving end of that kind of attitude, it's a fairly normal response to flip them the bird and vote for the other guy. To all the people who are saying, "how could they be so stupid?", I say: "How could you be so stupid? What did you think was going to happen?" If you want to win elections, start by not holding in contempt the people you claim to represent. Stop telling them what they're supposed to think, and what they're supposed to value, and what they're supposed to believe. Instead, find out what they think and value and believe, and then represent that.

altpaddle 2y ago
That's fair to call our democrats when they say things with contempt but is this not a phenomenon that happens from both sides now? What about when JD Vance calls out 'miserable childless cat ladies'? Donald Trump is a person who more so than anyone else I know of in American history is filled with grievance and contempt. Right leaning supporters online love to throw around contemptuous terms like groomer, pedophile, cuck, soyboy etc
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Of course it's a problem when Trump and Vance do it. But to me, the difference is this: Vance said "miserable childless cat ladies" about people who were Harris supporters. They already weren't going to vote for Trump. But the Democrats are pointing contempt at people that have, historically, been the Democrats' core constituency. Vance is alienating Harris voters, Democrats are alienating their own voters. In that way, it's different. It's not morally different - contempt is contempt - but it's practically different.

returningfory2 2y ago

> As a sidenote I realize Biden made that garbage comment which came across to me as a misconstrued sentence that is common with Biden's speech impediment. Honestly, is this because of his speech impediment or because Biden is just really old and unable to function anywhere close to 100%? I mention this because another angle of "talked down to" is a sense that the Democrats have gaslit the country on a number of issues, most clearly on Biden's age. We now know that Biden has declined cognitively since becoming President. We now know that his inner circle and the media around him engaged in small "cover up" to hide his decline. One element of this "cover up" was explaining his behavior as a result of his speech impediment. Of course, the debate spoke for itself and the whole thing came crashing down.