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I think that Harris was a very poor choice of a candidate. I have no way to know this, but I like to imagine that a better Dem candidate would have led to a dif

I think that Harris was a very poor choice of a candidate. I have no way to know this, but I like to imagine that a better Dem candidate would have led to a different president.

starik36 2y ago
Who else could they have possibly picked on such a short notice? I think, it made sense at the time - now, of course, we can all Monday morning quarterback.
- zerreh50 2y ago
  The short notice was a self inflicted problem. Biden's issues did not start in July 2024
  - starik36 2y ago
    For sure. I am asking who could they have picked after Biden's performance at the debates? E.g. after the damage was done. Kamala was probably the most prominent of all democrats at the time. The alternative would have been some no name senator or Hillary.
- cyclecount 2y ago
  They could have turned to the second place contestants from their sham primary election which was held this Spring and largely ignored by the media.
- saghm 2y ago
  Back in the spring, I had a long conversation with my father (a lifelong Democrat whose only vote in a presidential contest that wasn't for the Democrat candidate was for John Anderson in 1980) about Biden's chances against Trump. He insisted that Biden made the right choice to run because nobody else seemed like they would have a good chance against him, but I argued that this was because Biden choosing to run again essentially made it impossible for anyone else to make a serious attempt at it, and that the best thing would have been for him to announce within the first couple years of his term that he wouldn't be running for reelection, which would have given other candidates a chance to make a case. I still think that I was right about this; anyone competent enough to be a worthy candidate in the general election would know that they'd have no chance at winning the nomination against Biden running as an incumbent, even if they'd have a better chance at winning the general election. Anyone reasonable who was concerned with Trump winning had no incentive to enter a contest they couldn't win and risk being perceived (perhaps correctly) as a spoiler who hurt Biden's chances, so the smartest thing for them to do both for themselves and the country would be to hide their ambitions until next time and hope for the best. I know that I've probably been wrong ten times for every time that I've been right about something like this, but that didn't make it any easier to watch the last six or seven months. You're correct that there was nothing else anyone could have done to avoid the train wreck by the time Biden withdrew because the only way to avert it would have been to change speeds way back before we got to the sharp curve. The worst part is that I don't even think that Harris would have necessarily been a bad candidate if she had been given a proper chance from the start; there are articles as far back as early 2022 mentioning that her public appeal was hurt by the Biden administration tying her to issues like immigration and election reform. At minimum, ignoring the harm to her future electability showed extremely poor foresight, and it's not hard to imagine that it went beyond negligence to the point of outright sabotage of someone viewed as a potential threat.
  - pm90 2y ago
    It’s very unlikely that he would deliberately kneecap her. But I agree with you…that it was too late by the time he dropped out, the electorate had already made its mind. In the end, I think his policies turned out to be great. But he didn’t have the skills to capitalize on the gains, to seize them and point to them as “wins”. Instead we often saw a somewhat slow, very old but good natured grandpa who was clearly not fully present all the time. The policy on Gaza though, that made 0 sense. He had the power to bully Netanyahu into stepping back but consistently took no action. Solving that crisis would have been HUGE for reelection, keeping them festering only contributed to the feeling of chaos.
    - starik36 2y ago
      [flagged]
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  We both know who. Gavin. That would be landslide GOP, California goes red bad.
culi 2y ago
Between covid economic recovery and a war that dramatically and suddenly increased gas prices, I don't know what candidate would've done anything to turn the ship around. On election day, google search trends for "did biden drop out" had a massive spike. I think we consistently and considerably underestimate how tuned out the average voter is. Especially the independents that are the most likely to answer that they've made up their minds in the past 24 hours. It really does just come down to a vibe check for some of the most important swing voters
- FuckButtons 2y ago
  If they had had a serious conversation and a primary, maybe they could have distanced themselves from Biden? I doubt it though, too much party loyalty to admit to the failures of the incumbent.
quirk 2y ago
I think the key word in this is "choice", which is what D voters did not get. They got an attempted installation. Installation failed. See error log.
Redoubts 2y ago
Biden should have picked Klobuchar in 2020
TomK32 2y ago
[flagged]

I think that Harris was a very poor choice of a candidate. I have no way to know this, but I like to imagine that a better Dem candidate would have led to a different president.

starik36 2y ago

Who else could they have possibly picked on such a short notice? I think, it made sense at the time - now, of course, we can all Monday morning quarterback.

zerreh50 2y ago
The short notice was a self inflicted problem. Biden's issues did not start in July 2024
- starik36 2y ago
  For sure. I am asking who could they have picked after Biden's performance at the debates? E.g. after the damage was done. Kamala was probably the most prominent of all democrats at the time. The alternative would have been some no name senator or Hillary.
cyclecount 2y ago
They could have turned to the second place contestants from their sham primary election which was held this Spring and largely ignored by the media.
saghm 2y ago
Back in the spring, I had a long conversation with my father (a lifelong Democrat whose only vote in a presidential contest that wasn't for the Democrat candidate was for John Anderson in 1980) about Biden's chances against Trump. He insisted that Biden made the right choice to run because nobody else seemed like they would have a good chance against him, but I argued that this was because Biden choosing to run again essentially made it impossible for anyone else to make a serious attempt at it, and that the best thing would have been for him to announce within the first couple years of his term that he wouldn't be running for reelection, which would have given other candidates a chance to make a case. I still think that I was right about this; anyone competent enough to be a worthy candidate in the general election would know that they'd have no chance at winning the nomination against Biden running as an incumbent, even if they'd have a better chance at winning the general election. Anyone reasonable who was concerned with Trump winning had no incentive to enter a contest they couldn't win and risk being perceived (perhaps correctly) as a spoiler who hurt Biden's chances, so the smartest thing for them to do both for themselves and the country would be to hide their ambitions until next time and hope for the best. I know that I've probably been wrong ten times for every time that I've been right about something like this, but that didn't make it any easier to watch the last six or seven months. You're correct that there was nothing else anyone could have done to avoid the train wreck by the time Biden withdrew because the only way to avert it would have been to change speeds way back before we got to the sharp curve. The worst part is that I don't even think that Harris would have necessarily been a bad candidate if she had been given a proper chance from the start; there are articles as far back as early 2022 mentioning that her public appeal was hurt by the Biden administration tying her to issues like immigration and election reform. At minimum, ignoring the harm to her future electability showed extremely poor foresight, and it's not hard to imagine that it went beyond negligence to the point of outright sabotage of someone viewed as a potential threat.
- pm90 2y ago
  It’s very unlikely that he would deliberately kneecap her. But I agree with you…that it was too late by the time he dropped out, the electorate had already made its mind. In the end, I think his policies turned out to be great. But he didn’t have the skills to capitalize on the gains, to seize them and point to them as “wins”. Instead we often saw a somewhat slow, very old but good natured grandpa who was clearly not fully present all the time. The policy on Gaza though, that made 0 sense. He had the power to bully Netanyahu into stepping back but consistently took no action. Solving that crisis would have been HUGE for reelection, keeping them festering only contributed to the feeling of chaos.
  - starik36 2y ago
    [flagged]
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
We both know who. Gavin. That would be landslide GOP, California goes red bad.

culi 2y ago

Between covid economic recovery and a war that dramatically and suddenly increased gas prices, I don't know what candidate would've done anything to turn the ship around. On election day, google search trends for "did biden drop out" had a massive spike. I think we consistently and considerably underestimate how tuned out the average voter is. Especially the independents that are the most likely to answer that they've made up their minds in the past 24 hours. It really does just come down to a vibe check for some of the most important swing voters

FuckButtons 2y ago
If they had had a serious conversation and a primary, maybe they could have distanced themselves from Biden? I doubt it though, too much party loyalty to admit to the failures of the incumbent.

quirk 2y ago

I think the key word in this is "choice", which is what D voters did not get. They got an attempted installation. Installation failed. See error log.

Redoubts 2y ago

Biden should have picked Klobuchar in 2020

TomK32 2y ago

[flagged]