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What? Trump pulled out of the Iran deal, which pushed Iran to redevelop its nuclear program. Anti-war what? Trump signed the abraham accords with Saudi/Israel

What? Trump pulled out of the Iran deal, which pushed Iran to redevelop its nuclear program. Anti-war what? Trump signed the abraham accords with Saudi/Israeli appeasement, which Israeli intelligence notes pushed Hamas to attack on oct 7 and launch this war. Anti-war what? Trump withheld military aid from the Ukraine until Zelensky provided dirt on Joe Biden, which was critical for Ukraine's defense against Russia's aggression in Eastern Ukraine, leaving Ukraine weaker and invaded in full two years later, anti-war what? Trump has threatened to jail his opponents and go after the press, free speech what? Republicans have banned books, want to ban teachers and fire massive amounts of civil servants, free speech what? Elitist party, Trump is literally a billionaire who is supported by other billionaires, some of whom he will put in his cabinet. His biggest two policy positions are tax cuts for big corps (elitist) and deportations of the lowest class of people in the US. But Dems are elitist? I don't think there is much that they've switched on actually in the last election, other than Republicans convincing the working class that they're their party, something republicans have done on and off for many decades.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
This reads like TDS. Simple facts: Trump had way less war than now. Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen. Dick Cheney supporting the Dems is a simple way to look at it. Free speech: Random local Republicans have proposed all sorts of things, but Trump's circle is more pro free speech than the Dems right now. And Republicans as a party have stated free speech as a policy position. Whereas Dems state they want to "combat misinformation". They do not advocate free speech. There's even a clip circulating today where "The View" hosts call for cracking down on "misinformation" Trump has literally been brought to a courthouse and had his mugshot taken and you're talking about "jailing opponents"? Your arguments basically boil down to: "Trump bad, half country stupid" which is absolutely elitist.
- NoLinkToMe 2y ago
  You've proven yourself incapable of a normal argument. If I tell you that Israel itself thinks that Trump's actions caused the Hamas attacks and Israeli's retaliation, you'll respond to that by saying 'but the attacks happened during Biden's presidency thus it's Biden who started the war', then I really don't know how to have a conversation with you. If you cite Yemen without understanding that the civil war started in 2014, and the cease-fire started in 2022 under Biden, as a reason for why Biden is pro-war, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. If you think the guy who literally says journalists are the enemy of the people, the enemy within, and that that national guard or the military can resolve it, that he wouldn't mind if journalists get shot, that he'd take away broadcasting licenses, that he'll throw journalists in jail, that he'd bring the independent FCC under white house control, ban books, teachers and civil servants if they don't align with his views, is a guy who made free speech a genuine policy position, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. If I give counterpoints to your arguments and you paraphrase that by me saying 'trump bad, half country stupid', which I've not said, and then go on to classify that as elitist when the ENTIRE cabinet is envisaged to be (billionaire) elites with two major policy proposals benefitting elites and deporting the opposite of elites, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. So I won't.
- 9dev 2y ago
  > Trump had way less war than now. Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen. That’s about as accurate as saying that I ”had“ less war on my previous job. As it turns out, though, the world doesn’t revolve around me, and neither around the US president. Other actors exist, and they make their own decisions. I don’t know how to take your rambling around free speech seriously. Do you really argue that we should treat „alternative facts“ as valuable free speech? That we should support people actively deceiving others? Maybe, just maybe, when free speech collides with basic democratic resilience, democracy itself ought to win out? > Trump has literally been brought to a courthouse and had his mugshot taken and you're talking about "jailing opponents"? For an actual crime he committed. As it is supposed to be. Yet, he pushed for legislation to ensure he’s literally above the law.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    > the world doesn’t revolve around me, and neither around the US president lol, yes you are as important as the US president. > maybe, when free speech collides with basic democratic resilience, democracy itself ought to win out? Exhibit A of how libs now are against free speech^ > For an actual crime he committed For "mislabeling campaign funds", something the DNC and Clinton was fined for doing but never criminally prosecuted. It's simply because people don't like Trump the actual thing he did doesn't matter.
    - 9dev 2y ago
      > lol, yes you are as important as the US president. That’s besides the point. The recent wars didn’t start because Trump wasn’t president, and that wouldn’t have prevented them. > Exhibit A of how libs now are against free speech^ That… doesn’t relate to what I said. Well. I don’t think I want to continue this discussion.

cynicalpeace 2y ago

This reads like TDS. Simple facts: Trump had way less war than now. Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen. Dick Cheney supporting the Dems is a simple way to look at it. Free speech: Random local Republicans have proposed all sorts of things, but Trump's circle is more pro free speech than the Dems right now. And Republicans as a party have stated free speech as a policy position. Whereas Dems state they want to "combat misinformation". They do not advocate free speech. There's even a clip circulating today where "The View" hosts call for cracking down on "misinformation" Trump has literally been brought to a courthouse and had his mugshot taken and you're talking about "jailing opponents"? Your arguments basically boil down to: "Trump bad, half country stupid" which is absolutely elitist.

NoLinkToMe 2y ago
You've proven yourself incapable of a normal argument. If I tell you that Israel itself thinks that Trump's actions caused the Hamas attacks and Israeli's retaliation, you'll respond to that by saying 'but the attacks happened during Biden's presidency thus it's Biden who started the war', then I really don't know how to have a conversation with you. If you cite Yemen without understanding that the civil war started in 2014, and the cease-fire started in 2022 under Biden, as a reason for why Biden is pro-war, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. If you think the guy who literally says journalists are the enemy of the people, the enemy within, and that that national guard or the military can resolve it, that he wouldn't mind if journalists get shot, that he'd take away broadcasting licenses, that he'll throw journalists in jail, that he'd bring the independent FCC under white house control, ban books, teachers and civil servants if they don't align with his views, is a guy who made free speech a genuine policy position, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. If I give counterpoints to your arguments and you paraphrase that by me saying 'trump bad, half country stupid', which I've not said, and then go on to classify that as elitist when the ENTIRE cabinet is envisaged to be (billionaire) elites with two major policy proposals benefitting elites and deporting the opposite of elites, then I don't know how to have a conversation with you. So I won't.
9dev 2y ago
> Trump had way less war than now. Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen. That’s about as accurate as saying that I ”had“ less war on my previous job. As it turns out, though, the world doesn’t revolve around me, and neither around the US president. Other actors exist, and they make their own decisions. I don’t know how to take your rambling around free speech seriously. Do you really argue that we should treat „alternative facts“ as valuable free speech? That we should support people actively deceiving others? Maybe, just maybe, when free speech collides with basic democratic resilience, democracy itself ought to win out? > Trump has literally been brought to a courthouse and had his mugshot taken and you're talking about "jailing opponents"? For an actual crime he committed. As it is supposed to be. Yet, he pushed for legislation to ensure he’s literally above the law.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  > the world doesn’t revolve around me, and neither around the US president lol, yes you are as important as the US president. > maybe, when free speech collides with basic democratic resilience, democracy itself ought to win out? Exhibit A of how libs now are against free speech^ > For an actual crime he committed For "mislabeling campaign funds", something the DNC and Clinton was fined for doing but never criminally prosecuted. It's simply because people don't like Trump the actual thing he did doesn't matter.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    > lol, yes you are as important as the US president. That’s besides the point. The recent wars didn’t start because Trump wasn’t president, and that wouldn’t have prevented them. > Exhibit A of how libs now are against free speech^ That… doesn’t relate to what I said. Well. I don’t think I want to continue this discussion.