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Eh Trump doesn't care at all about Palestinian lives, nor do his followers, meaning he'd be able to give Netanyahu a carte blanche and trade it for political fa

Eh Trump doesn't care at all about Palestinian lives, nor do his followers, meaning he'd be able to give Netanyahu a carte blanche and trade it for political favours, and he's got the personality to do so. From Israeli intelligence sources itself, it was noted that the Hamas attacks were planned in part as a response to the abraham accords under trump (Israeli/Saudi appeasement and the movement of the US embassy to Jerusalem) which Hamas warned against. Third, Trump literally ensured the US was the first country on the planet to recognize Israel's domain over the Golan Heights, which is internationally viewed as annexed land. And it's likely further annexations will be recognised as well, with no recourse, leading to the gradual decline of the Palestinian political project to the point that it ceases to be an issue (e.g. look at US history, its 300 million non-native Americans are here to stay, it's a political non-issue) So yes, Trump is worse. Not only did his middle-east policy help cause the escalations in the first place, recognize Israel's annexations, Israel would be even more free to run wild in Palestine than before. It is worse. Just look at how happy Netanyahu is with the Trump victory is all you need to know.

mardifoufs 2y ago
How many palestinians died during the Trump administration? More importantly, what did Biden do that didn't amount to full Israeli support? Like, you are again arguing about more abstract stuff, whereas no matter what Biden or Trump say, the reality is that Israel has been left to do whatever it wants, with full american material, for a year now. That's almost unprecedented and that's my entire point. And even if we go by what they say instead of what they do and did, Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. The Biden administration has openly supported the Israeli escalation in Lebanon very recently. And has shown absolutely no care for putting an end to this (other countries like France for example, supported Israel in Gaza but openly condemned what happened in Lebanon). Again, Trump is a lot of things, but he does not seem to like war. Biden on the other hand seems rather unbothered, and tries to pretend to care while providing almost the entirety of the munitions that Israel has been using to genocide Gaza and invade Lebanon. But at least he doesn't recognize more Israeli annexations I guess (not that he ever condemned the settlements or did anything against the current settlements either, but hey he's just the president, not someone with power to do something about it right?). So to see the mental gymnastics that Democrats do to openly support Biden while also sweeping under the rug the dire consequences of his foreign policy behind 'both sides would do it' is extremely off-putting. The side that's doing it right now is the side that they are actively openly supporting! I guess I am biased as I have close friends that had to flee from their homes and had their entire family properties obliterated in Gaza but still. Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ?
- NoLinkToMe 2y ago
  I'm not interested in arguing in defense of Biden because I can't and I won't. What I will do is argue that Trump would've been even worse. What I will do is again, reiterate, that the current violence is in part a direct result of Trump's actions. For one in Saudi/Israeli appeasement, the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, the recognition of annexed lands. We know this to be true. These are massive and likely irrevocable steps in US policy that slowly will end the idea of a Palestinian state and turn them into a native-american minority in someone else's state. Further, we know that Netanyahu is in power because of Trump's support. Trump was famously pissed at Netanyahu for congratulating Biden indeed on his victory, noting he recognised the Golan Heights as Israeli land during the election which massively helped his win. These guys are doing each other favours. There is absolutely no reason to suspect Trump would've restricted Israel more than Biden. Trump doesn't care nor do his followers. Trump has done things Biden hasn't, and he's likely to do more. > Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. Biden has been doing the same for more than a year now, only its toothless. Trump may stop the war but only by giving Israel exactly what it wants. Do you think he's going to use his credits for a Palestinian cause, for what benefit to him? Due to his own ethical standard? Don't make me laugh. Again, not defending Biden, but Trump simply is worse for Palestinians. I don't think he would've protected Palestinian lives any more, but rather set the scene for more Israeli support, more annexations, more military aid, and more future escalations. Israel has had lots of plans that didn't get pushed through (e.g. pushing Gazans into Egypt and taking Gaza as part of Israel) that might well be a reality under Trump. > Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ? No. He was the literally the first leader in the world to congratulate trump. For Biden it was extremely late, even 12 hours after the US media had called the election. He didn't refer to Biden as president-elect and in the immediate subsequent tweet went on to thank Trump for all that he had done. Now that Trump won again he called it a great victory and the greatest comeback ever with exclamation marks. It's not a regular political message 'congratulate the new guy and start up diplomatic courtesies', it's happiness. His cabinet celebrated the victory. 2/3rds of Israeli's support Trump. This is not for nothing.
  - 2y ago

mardifoufs 2y ago

How many palestinians died during the Trump administration? More importantly, what did Biden do that didn't amount to full Israeli support? Like, you are again arguing about more abstract stuff, whereas no matter what Biden or Trump say, the reality is that Israel has been left to do whatever it wants, with full american material, for a year now. That's almost unprecedented and that's my entire point. And even if we go by what they say instead of what they do and did, Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. The Biden administration has openly supported the Israeli escalation in Lebanon very recently. And has shown absolutely no care for putting an end to this (other countries like France for example, supported Israel in Gaza but openly condemned what happened in Lebanon). Again, Trump is a lot of things, but he does not seem to like war. Biden on the other hand seems rather unbothered, and tries to pretend to care while providing almost the entirety of the munitions that Israel has been using to genocide Gaza and invade Lebanon. But at least he doesn't recognize more Israeli annexations I guess (not that he ever condemned the settlements or did anything against the current settlements either, but hey he's just the president, not someone with power to do something about it right?). So to see the mental gymnastics that Democrats do to openly support Biden while also sweeping under the rug the dire consequences of his foreign policy behind 'both sides would do it' is extremely off-putting. The side that's doing it right now is the side that they are actively openly supporting! I guess I am biased as I have close friends that had to flee from their homes and had their entire family properties obliterated in Gaza but still. Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ?

NoLinkToMe 2y ago
I'm not interested in arguing in defense of Biden because I can't and I won't. What I will do is argue that Trump would've been even worse. What I will do is again, reiterate, that the current violence is in part a direct result of Trump's actions. For one in Saudi/Israeli appeasement, the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, the recognition of annexed lands. We know this to be true. These are massive and likely irrevocable steps in US policy that slowly will end the idea of a Palestinian state and turn them into a native-american minority in someone else's state. Further, we know that Netanyahu is in power because of Trump's support. Trump was famously pissed at Netanyahu for congratulating Biden indeed on his victory, noting he recognised the Golan Heights as Israeli land during the election which massively helped his win. These guys are doing each other favours. There is absolutely no reason to suspect Trump would've restricted Israel more than Biden. Trump doesn't care nor do his followers. Trump has done things Biden hasn't, and he's likely to do more. > Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. Biden has been doing the same for more than a year now, only its toothless. Trump may stop the war but only by giving Israel exactly what it wants. Do you think he's going to use his credits for a Palestinian cause, for what benefit to him? Due to his own ethical standard? Don't make me laugh. Again, not defending Biden, but Trump simply is worse for Palestinians. I don't think he would've protected Palestinian lives any more, but rather set the scene for more Israeli support, more annexations, more military aid, and more future escalations. Israel has had lots of plans that didn't get pushed through (e.g. pushing Gazans into Egypt and taking Gaza as part of Israel) that might well be a reality under Trump. > Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ? No. He was the literally the first leader in the world to congratulate trump. For Biden it was extremely late, even 12 hours after the US media had called the election. He didn't refer to Biden as president-elect and in the immediate subsequent tweet went on to thank Trump for all that he had done. Now that Trump won again he called it a great victory and the greatest comeback ever with exclamation marks. It's not a regular political message 'congratulate the new guy and start up diplomatic courtesies', it's happiness. His cabinet celebrated the victory. 2/3rds of Israeli's support Trump. This is not for nothing.
- 2y ago