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Reading through the post is quite depressing. As a lifelong independent, I've never felt more vilified by the Democratic Party than at any other time. Constantl

Reading through the post is quite depressing. As a lifelong independent, I've never felt more vilified by the Democratic Party than at any other time. Constantly being talked down to, insulted as a white supremacist, nazi, etc. It's this "elitist" and "we know better than you" attitude that really, really puts a sour taste in my mouth. Yet, reading through these comments, it seems alive and well even after an astounding rebuke. Why? I despise our two-party system, but I'm actually quite happy to see one particular party rebuked this time around for this abhorrent behavior that should have no place in civil discourse. It's sad that HN can't rise above it. And for clarity, yes, both sides participate in this charade of incivilities, but I am simply expressing my own opinion as an independent in 2024 that it overwhelmingly came from one side towards _me_ in this election cycle.

ricardo81 2y ago
I hear you (actually not from my perpective, just other people I know). It may sound really superficial but it sounds like a platonist vs aristotelian argument. The former being people who believe abstract theories are the greater good (conventional theory) vs real world experiences. The problem with the former is that if you're afforded to believe it if you're not in survival mode. IMO in all actuality the best course of action is somewhere in the middle.
eilefsen 2y ago
i think this is the insidious thing about polarization: people in the middle get caught in the crossfire of harsh rhetoric. and it is hard to blame people for this, an eye for an eye is so easy and tempting. I've had right wingers criticize me with patronizing "anti-commie" rhetoric, but the worst has been shaming (yes actual shaming and exclusion) from my peers because i (mostly) agree with them in a contrarian way that they dont like or attempt to understand. i don't really interact with many right wingers day to day, so this difference might just be a result of that bias. I'm curious if this kind of thing happens to right wingers as well, or if there is less such "friendly-fire" on the right. P.S I'm European.
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  Yes, I have experienced the rhetoric from both sides. I have already doxxed myself as a Christian here, so I'll restate it again. I have a tremendous amount of disdain for Christian nationalists and, specifically, the Republican appropriation of Christianity for harvesting votes. This has alienated me from a large number of people just in my own faith. It appears to be the plight of critical thinkers in this culture. You are not allowed to have a complex set of beliefs that may cross both sides of the culture war.
superultra 2y ago
I'm genuinely curious - can you elaborate on "constantly being talking down to? insulted as a white supremacist, nazi?" Does this happen to you in personal conversations with family members or with friends who are left? Or are you referring to broader culture in general, like the Harris' campaign, because if so, can you elaborate on the time Harris or Biden "talked down" to you? As a sidenote I realize Biden made that garbage comment which came across to me as a misconstrued sentence that is common with Biden's speech impediment. But even if not, Trump has said a lot of terrible things about left leaning people like myself. Is your standard as equivically disdainful of Trump's comments, and if not, why not? I guess I just find it wild you're appealing to civil discourse when the winner of this election does very little civil discourse, by his own admission.
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  In terms of face-to-face conversations, I've never once had these insults thrown at me. This is somewhat expected, as in my experience, most people are far less confrontational in these situations. I would say a majority of it comes from: - Group "watercooler" discussions at work where people parrot vilifying language that targets groups I identify with (I do work at a _very_ left-leaning workplace) - Community events that I have participated in, where people were not necessarily attacking me personally, but were hurling insults at our group - The media. This one is fairly self-documenting. As I mentioned in another reply, since I fall in the middle, I often get negative rhetoric from both sides. But only one has stooped to the levels of vitriol that have often left me shocked (for example, that I should forcibly have my genitals removed so as to prevent procreation).
  - chicagobuss 2y ago
    just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hitler's generals so he could just have democrats or others who disagree with him executed
    - aliasxneo 2y ago

ricardo81 2y ago

I hear you (actually not from my perpective, just other people I know). It may sound really superficial but it sounds like a platonist vs aristotelian argument. The former being people who believe abstract theories are the greater good (conventional theory) vs real world experiences. The problem with the former is that if you're afforded to believe it if you're not in survival mode. IMO in all actuality the best course of action is somewhere in the middle.

eilefsen 2y ago

i think this is the insidious thing about polarization: people in the middle get caught in the crossfire of harsh rhetoric. and it is hard to blame people for this, an eye for an eye is so easy and tempting. I've had right wingers criticize me with patronizing "anti-commie" rhetoric, but the worst has been shaming (yes actual shaming and exclusion) from my peers because i (mostly) agree with them in a contrarian way that they dont like or attempt to understand. i don't really interact with many right wingers day to day, so this difference might just be a result of that bias. I'm curious if this kind of thing happens to right wingers as well, or if there is less such "friendly-fire" on the right. P.S I'm European.

aliasxneo 2y ago
Yes, I have experienced the rhetoric from both sides. I have already doxxed myself as a Christian here, so I'll restate it again. I have a tremendous amount of disdain for Christian nationalists and, specifically, the Republican appropriation of Christianity for harvesting votes. This has alienated me from a large number of people just in my own faith. It appears to be the plight of critical thinkers in this culture. You are not allowed to have a complex set of beliefs that may cross both sides of the culture war.

superultra 2y ago

I'm genuinely curious - can you elaborate on "constantly being talking down to? insulted as a white supremacist, nazi?" Does this happen to you in personal conversations with family members or with friends who are left? Or are you referring to broader culture in general, like the Harris' campaign, because if so, can you elaborate on the time Harris or Biden "talked down" to you? As a sidenote I realize Biden made that garbage comment which came across to me as a misconstrued sentence that is common with Biden's speech impediment. But even if not, Trump has said a lot of terrible things about left leaning people like myself. Is your standard as equivically disdainful of Trump's comments, and if not, why not? I guess I just find it wild you're appealing to civil discourse when the winner of this election does very little civil discourse, by his own admission.

aliasxneo 2y ago
In terms of face-to-face conversations, I've never once had these insults thrown at me. This is somewhat expected, as in my experience, most people are far less confrontational in these situations. I would say a majority of it comes from: - Group "watercooler" discussions at work where people parrot vilifying language that targets groups I identify with (I do work at a _very_ left-leaning workplace) - Community events that I have participated in, where people were not necessarily attacking me personally, but were hurling insults at our group - The media. This one is fairly self-documenting. As I mentioned in another reply, since I fall in the middle, I often get negative rhetoric from both sides. But only one has stooped to the levels of vitriol that have often left me shocked (for example, that I should forcibly have my genitals removed so as to prevent procreation).
- chicagobuss 2y ago
  just curious if you think that the rhetoric from trump and his followers is not only hurtful, but also incredibly violent. like how he said he wishes he had Hitler's generals so he could just have democrats or others who disagree with him executed
  - aliasxneo 2y ago