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Well my point wasn't about what it feels like, but the way the reaction was handled. I would never send an email that said "You fucking changed my CSS". It hap

by zemaj 14y ago

Well my point wasn't about what it feels like, but the way the reaction was handled. I would never send an email that said "You fucking changed my CSS". It happens ALL the time to developers. In fact refactoring, telling each other what you think is wrong in the code and how to fix it is a core part of team software development. Nothing is ever perfect. You can't be that protective of any part of your product.

astrodust 14y ago
If you're on a small team and can't say how you feel, especially when it's warranted, I'm not sure you're on the right team. In terms of efficiency, "You fucking changed my CSS" says a lot in just a few words. Once that's out of the way, you can always get on to the finer points of why that's a bad thing.
- rexreed 14y ago
  I understand that this blunt approach works in the short term, and maybe it's even effective. But trust me, do this for two years instead of just two weeks, and the team stops respecting or trusting each other. Each little verbal jab accumulates over time and deteriorates the working relationship. "Don't work with John or touch his stuff - he goes ape shit every time some little thing happens." There's a good saying that goes "never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence / stupidity / misunderstanding" (the last word depending on your context). Basically, cursing someone out does not necessarily yield results over the long term when there is an underlying problem that can be solved in a more civil fashion.
- VolatileVoid 14y ago
  Actually, I disagree with this in practice. I do agree that you should be able to say how you feel, but "You fucking changed my CSS" is an overreaction. I work on a project with 4 or 5 other people. Sometimes they change something and it breaks me, and sometimes I change things and it breaks them. When that happens I can choose to react in a few ways: 1) "You fucking broke my code." 2) "Why did you change my code?" 3) "Why you change THE code/Why did you make this change?" 4) Ignore it and fix it myself. Of the 4, #3 is probably the most appropriate reaction and can easily be stated as "Why did you make this change? It broke functionality/function X!" And it easily conveys the issue and your dissatisfaction. She could have stated, "Why did you change my copy? I carefully selected each word and I think the changes detract from the overall feel." Boom. Done. Dissatisfaction has been conveyed without sounding like a child.
  - davidw 14y ago
    Exactly - asking questions will get someone to realize that they fucked up, and if they're at all conscientious, as the post's author appears to be, they'll feel bad enough, with no need for a harsh tone.
    - SatvikBeri 14y ago
      I would view asking questions to get someone to realize that they fucked up as passive aggressive. Ask if you're genuinely curious, but if it's clear that your friend/coworker/cofounder screwed up by meddling in something that they don't have expertise in, then call them on it!
      - davidw 14y ago
        Well, simple asking questions doesn't mean you're not being a jerk, but done the right way, I think it's just a better way of treating a colleague.
  - astrodust 14y ago
    It obviously depends on the kind of people you're working with. If it's with someone who you've been in the trenches with for a while, then formality is often something you both discard.
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Actually, your example includes the best reason for restating the objection. ""Why did you change my copy? I carefully selected each word" ... where the word selection refers to co-founder's response to Jesse. Why choose words carefully when communicating to the public / investors, and not to team members / partners?
- Goronmon 14y ago
  In terms of efficiency, "You fucking changed my CSS" says a lot in just a few words. Once that's out of the way, you can always get on to the finer points of why that's a bad thing. I'm glad I haven't had to work with people who acted like this yet. As I'm pretty sure my response would be a very efficient "Fuck you, stop being a child." somewhere around the second time it happened.

by zemaj 14y ago

astrodust 14y ago

If you're on a small team and can't say how you feel, especially when it's warranted, I'm not sure you're on the right team. In terms of efficiency, "You fucking changed my CSS" says a lot in just a few words. Once that's out of the way, you can always get on to the finer points of why that's a bad thing.

rexreed 14y ago
I understand that this blunt approach works in the short term, and maybe it's even effective. But trust me, do this for two years instead of just two weeks, and the team stops respecting or trusting each other. Each little verbal jab accumulates over time and deteriorates the working relationship. "Don't work with John or touch his stuff - he goes ape shit every time some little thing happens." There's a good saying that goes "never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence / stupidity / misunderstanding" (the last word depending on your context). Basically, cursing someone out does not necessarily yield results over the long term when there is an underlying problem that can be solved in a more civil fashion.
VolatileVoid 14y ago
Actually, I disagree with this in practice. I do agree that you should be able to say how you feel, but "You fucking changed my CSS" is an overreaction. I work on a project with 4 or 5 other people. Sometimes they change something and it breaks me, and sometimes I change things and it breaks them. When that happens I can choose to react in a few ways: 1) "You fucking broke my code." 2) "Why did you change my code?" 3) "Why you change THE code/Why did you make this change?" 4) Ignore it and fix it myself. Of the 4, #3 is probably the most appropriate reaction and can easily be stated as "Why did you make this change? It broke functionality/function X!" And it easily conveys the issue and your dissatisfaction. She could have stated, "Why did you change my copy? I carefully selected each word and I think the changes detract from the overall feel." Boom. Done. Dissatisfaction has been conveyed without sounding like a child.
- davidw 14y ago
  Exactly - asking questions will get someone to realize that they fucked up, and if they're at all conscientious, as the post's author appears to be, they'll feel bad enough, with no need for a harsh tone.
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    I would view asking questions to get someone to realize that they fucked up as passive aggressive. Ask if you're genuinely curious, but if it's clear that your friend/coworker/cofounder screwed up by meddling in something that they don't have expertise in, then call them on it!
    - davidw 14y ago
      Well, simple asking questions doesn't mean you're not being a jerk, but done the right way, I think it's just a better way of treating a colleague.
- astrodust 14y ago
  It obviously depends on the kind of people you're working with. If it's with someone who you've been in the trenches with for a while, then formality is often something you both discard.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Actually, your example includes the best reason for restating the objection. ""Why did you change my copy? I carefully selected each word" ... where the word selection refers to co-founder's response to Jesse. Why choose words carefully when communicating to the public / investors, and not to team members / partners?
Goronmon 14y ago
In terms of efficiency, "You fucking changed my CSS" says a lot in just a few words. Once that's out of the way, you can always get on to the finer points of why that's a bad thing. I'm glad I haven't had to work with people who acted like this yet. As I'm pretty sure my response would be a very efficient "Fuck you, stop being a child." somewhere around the second time it happened.