5 ms·

For an apples to apples comparison, you'll need to compare Zen 5 with M3, or whatever Zen 6 is going to be with M4. Apple is paying for exclusive access to TSM

For an apples to apples comparison, you'll need to compare Zen 5 with M3, or whatever Zen 6 is going to be with M4. Apple is paying for exclusive access to TSMC's next node. That improves their final products, but doesn't make their architecture inherently better.

ricketycricket 2y ago
Do you though? M4 is what is on the market now and this chip is just coming out. Maybe they are on different processes, but you still have to compare things at a given point in time.
rowanG077 2y ago
Why would a consumer care about what node something is on? You should only care about a set of processors that is available in the market at the same time. The M4 is available now and Zen 6 is not. Once zen 6 is here we probably have an M5.
- OKRainbowKid 2y ago
  Where can I buy an M4? I don't care about the rest of Apple's products, but the chips are pretty sweet.
  - rowanG077 2y ago
    Is this a serious question? Apple.com and basically every computer part store.
    - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
      The question wasn't entirely serious, no. My point is: afaik the M processors aren't actually available on the market, they only come as one component of a much more expensive product. I don't mean to take away from how impressive they are.
      - rowanG077 2y ago
        And why does that matter exactly for the discussion at hand?
        OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        You wrote >You should only care about a set of processors that is available in the market at the same time. The M4 is available now and Zen 6 is not. I can't buy an M4, it's not available in the market.
        rowanG077 2y ago
        I don't get it. You can literally go buy it right now. You have been able to buy it for months and months by getting an Ipad. If you are saying you can't buy it because it's used inside a product then the same goes for basically all mobile processors. I can't "buy" an AMD Ryzen HX 370. I can't buy an Intel Core Ultra 258V. And neither can I "buy" a Qualcomm Snapdragon X1E-80-100. This has never even been a factor.
        OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        You are correct, the situation is similar for most mobile processors. They are unavailable on the market for consumers looking to build a system. Apple goes one step further though: M processors aren't just unavailable to consumers, there's also no way for OEMs to build systems using these chips. In this point they differ significantly from the examples you mentioned. For people that do not want to buy into the Apple ecosystem, M chips are effectively not on the market, and benchmark comparisons to desktop or server CPUs are meaningless.
        rowanG077 2y ago
        Why does it matter that they aren't available to OEMs? This is moving the goalpost from your original argument. The second part of your argument is currently correct but that will change shortly. There is no reason to lock into the apple ecosystem. M4 support is underway in Linux though not yet available. You can easily use a Mac mini as a server running Linux.

ricketycricket 2y ago

Do you though? M4 is what is on the market now and this chip is just coming out. Maybe they are on different processes, but you still have to compare things at a given point in time.

rowanG077 2y ago

Why would a consumer care about what node something is on? You should only care about a set of processors that is available in the market at the same time. The M4 is available now and Zen 6 is not. Once zen 6 is here we probably have an M5.

OKRainbowKid 2y ago
Where can I buy an M4? I don't care about the rest of Apple's products, but the chips are pretty sweet.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  Is this a serious question? Apple.com and basically every computer part store.
  - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
    The question wasn't entirely serious, no. My point is: afaik the M processors aren't actually available on the market, they only come as one component of a much more expensive product. I don't mean to take away from how impressive they are.
    - rowanG077 2y ago
      And why does that matter exactly for the discussion at hand?
      - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        You wrote >You should only care about a set of processors that is available in the market at the same time. The M4 is available now and Zen 6 is not. I can't buy an M4, it's not available in the market.
        rowanG077 2y ago
        I don't get it. You can literally go buy it right now. You have been able to buy it for months and months by getting an Ipad. If you are saying you can't buy it because it's used inside a product then the same goes for basically all mobile processors. I can't "buy" an AMD Ryzen HX 370. I can't buy an Intel Core Ultra 258V. And neither can I "buy" a Qualcomm Snapdragon X1E-80-100. This has never even been a factor.
        OKRainbowKid 2y ago
        You are correct, the situation is similar for most mobile processors. They are unavailable on the market for consumers looking to build a system. Apple goes one step further though: M processors aren't just unavailable to consumers, there's also no way for OEMs to build systems using these chips. In this point they differ significantly from the examples you mentioned. For people that do not want to buy into the Apple ecosystem, M chips are effectively not on the market, and benchmark comparisons to desktop or server CPUs are meaningless.
        rowanG077 2y ago
        Why does it matter that they aren't available to OEMs? This is moving the goalpost from your original argument. The second part of your argument is currently correct but that will change shortly. There is no reason to lock into the apple ecosystem. M4 support is underway in Linux though not yet available. You can easily use a Mac mini as a server running Linux.