4 ms·

This is just taken wildly out of context. And that’s coming from me, who can’t stand DJT. You’re literally fishing for a retort that doesn’t even make sense.

rootusrootus 2y ago
I am having a heard time reading his exact words and understanding them to mean something else. When he says to 'my beautiful Christians' that in four years you won't have to vote again, what is he trying to say? What is the missing context?
- squigz 2y ago
  The full quote being: > "in four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote." One can reasonably interpret that as meaning that in the next 4 years, Trump and his party are going to fix the country so much and so well that Christians won't have to go out to vote next time.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Not only is that the most reasonable interpretation of the words, it's the one he explicitly gave when asked [0]. The only way to arrive at the alternate interpretation is to be coming from a place where you already assume Trump is a threat to democracy. I think there are reasons to have arrived at that place (Jan 6th), but this quote is not evidence for it unless wildly misinterpreted. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/donald-trump-wont-have-to-vote-anymore-fox-interview https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/dona...
    - rootusrootus 2y ago
      > where you already assume Trump is a threat to democracy You know, the people who see him as a threat to democracy are not just putting words in his mouth. Maybe they just listen to what he says, and believe him. Is that unreasonable?
      - squigz 2y ago
        Well we've already covered one quote that was grossly misinterpreted. What others have you got that implies he's a threat to democracy in America?
        rootusrootus 2y ago
        The only people arguing it was misinterpreted are people who support him. Not by providing any context that actually supports it meaning something different. How about the innumerable times he claimed the election was rigged despite lacking any evidence to support it? Does denying that free and fair elections exist not count pretty specifically as being a threat to democracy? I totally get that he has an artful way of making alarming statements over and over, but doing it with just a hint of humor, so that his supporters can claim it was all just a joke. In your view, at what point do we get to take a politician at their word?
        lolinder 2y ago
        > The only people arguing it was misinterpreted are people who support him. Bullshit. I'm as anti-Trump as they come, but I don't let that blind me to reality. What he meant is obvious to anyone who isn't already looking for proof of their preconceived ideas. I'm not even arguing that he's not a major threat to democracy—I think he is! I disagree that that quote is useful as evidence of that fact, and I disagree with the tactic that the left intentionally adopted of twisting the truth to make a point. People saw through that tactic and it contributed to Trump's victory. The facts about Trump are scary enough, there was no need to twist his words.
        dudefeliciano 2y ago
        What you are doing has a name these days, they call it sanewashing. Had Harris or Biden said anything even close to trumps comments the maga crowd would have yelled bloody murder, but somehow for trump everything is excusable and can be explained away.
        PsylentKnight 2y ago
        Everything he said and continues to say about the 2020 election, and the attempts he made to overturn said election Makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills that this guy was electable after this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_ph... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_...
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    So the most favorable interpretation of his words is that his supporters are delusional? What is their interpretation of "fix the country"? Because if it does not involve changing the constitution (a very tall order) then every single thing he does can be undone with the same effort by the next democratic president. Surely these people know that, right? How could they possibly believe that he will magically "fix the country" so they don't have to vote any more, unless they anticipate that he means something permanent?
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      Because they don’t take things so literally. I’m not trying to be flippant, that’s genuinely the answer to your question. Trump is literally being dramatic and funny by putting it like that. And you’re taking the bait and missing the joke. I know I sound like the enemy and I dislike including this paragraph: But keep in mind, I can’t stand Donald Trump and didn’t vote for him.
- zo1 2y ago
  Come on. We all know Trump effing talks weird, that's just part of his weird personality that no one likes. I don't like it, think it's confusing and winding around requiring much mental parsing to understand even for normal stories/sentences. But to take this tiny little sentence as definitive proof of some giant plan that's coming to end democracy is just... mental gymnastics in search of meaning for a narrative that they've already decided it means. Here is the Full quote so everyone can see it. He even explains in the end what he means. > "And again, Christians: Get out and vote! Just this time. You won't have to do it anymore! Four more years, you know what? It'll be fixed, it'll be fine, you won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians, I love you Christians, I'm not Christian, I love you, get out, you gotta get and vote. In four years you don't have to vote again, we'll have it fixed so good you're not gonna have to vote." From Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    I'm just listening to his words and assuming he means what he says. He is either insulting his followers, or he is telling them he will "fix" the country in such a way that they won't have to vote any more. You can interpret this to mean he will try to subvert the electoral result again, or you can interpret it to mean that he plans to make some kind of permanent change so that christian voters will no longer be required to vote to achieve their goals. Which is it?
    - lolinder 2y ago
      > I'm just listening to his words and assuming he means what he says. That's not how language works. There's a whole field of linguistics called pragmatics that is about how context contributes to meaning [0]. You're taking a few seconds of his words, joining them to all of your priors, and interpreting them in that context. His original listeners were taking his words in the context of the whole speech, joining them to their priors, and interpreting them in that context. It's entirely expected that your interpretation would be different than theirs given that disconnect, and the most reliable way to interpret meaning is to look at who the audience was and how they would have interpreted it, because the speaker chose their words for that context, not for yours. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics
dudefeliciano 2y ago
“You know, FDR 16 years – almost 16 years – he was four terms. I don’t know, are we going to be considered three-term? Or two-term?” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/19/trump-nra-convention-dallas https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/19/trum... he has vowed to be dictator on day one https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72 https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritar... On February 27th-the Reichstag in Berlin was set on fire. 4 weeks before, Hitler was appointed to chancellor. Hitler placed an urgency regulation to ban all political activities. He destroyed democracy in one month. Trump can now do it one day. he is definitely signaling something, whether it will come true or not is another question.
OmarShehata 2y ago
the missing context is that the Christian groups he was speaking to typically have low turn out/don't often come out to vote. He's asking them to please come out to vote, it's important this time. It's exactly the same rhetoric democrats use "this is the most important election, you really need to vote this time, this time it really matters"

rootusrootus 2y ago

I am having a heard time reading his exact words and understanding them to mean something else. When he says to 'my beautiful Christians' that in four years you won't have to vote again, what is he trying to say? What is the missing context?

squigz 2y ago
The full quote being: > "in four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed so good, you're not gonna have to vote." One can reasonably interpret that as meaning that in the next 4 years, Trump and his party are going to fix the country so much and so well that Christians won't have to go out to vote next time.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Not only is that the most reasonable interpretation of the words, it's the one he explicitly gave when asked [0]. The only way to arrive at the alternate interpretation is to be coming from a place where you already assume Trump is a threat to democracy. I think there are reasons to have arrived at that place (Jan 6th), but this quote is not evidence for it unless wildly misinterpreted. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/donald-trump-wont-have-to-vote-anymore-fox-interview https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/dona...
  - rootusrootus 2y ago
    > where you already assume Trump is a threat to democracy You know, the people who see him as a threat to democracy are not just putting words in his mouth. Maybe they just listen to what he says, and believe him. Is that unreasonable?
    - squigz 2y ago
      Well we've already covered one quote that was grossly misinterpreted. What others have you got that implies he's a threat to democracy in America?
      - rootusrootus 2y ago
        The only people arguing it was misinterpreted are people who support him. Not by providing any context that actually supports it meaning something different. How about the innumerable times he claimed the election was rigged despite lacking any evidence to support it? Does denying that free and fair elections exist not count pretty specifically as being a threat to democracy? I totally get that he has an artful way of making alarming statements over and over, but doing it with just a hint of humor, so that his supporters can claim it was all just a joke. In your view, at what point do we get to take a politician at their word?
        lolinder 2y ago
        > The only people arguing it was misinterpreted are people who support him. Bullshit. I'm as anti-Trump as they come, but I don't let that blind me to reality. What he meant is obvious to anyone who isn't already looking for proof of their preconceived ideas. I'm not even arguing that he's not a major threat to democracy—I think he is! I disagree that that quote is useful as evidence of that fact, and I disagree with the tactic that the left intentionally adopted of twisting the truth to make a point. People saw through that tactic and it contributed to Trump's victory. The facts about Trump are scary enough, there was no need to twist his words.
      - dudefeliciano 2y ago
        What you are doing has a name these days, they call it sanewashing. Had Harris or Biden said anything even close to trumps comments the maga crowd would have yelled bloody murder, but somehow for trump everything is excusable and can be explained away.
      - PsylentKnight 2y ago
        Everything he said and continues to say about the 2020 election, and the attempts he made to overturn said election Makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills that this guy was electable after this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_memos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_ph... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_...
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  So the most favorable interpretation of his words is that his supporters are delusional? What is their interpretation of "fix the country"? Because if it does not involve changing the constitution (a very tall order) then every single thing he does can be undone with the same effort by the next democratic president. Surely these people know that, right? How could they possibly believe that he will magically "fix the country" so they don't have to vote any more, unless they anticipate that he means something permanent?
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Because they don’t take things so literally. I’m not trying to be flippant, that’s genuinely the answer to your question. Trump is literally being dramatic and funny by putting it like that. And you’re taking the bait and missing the joke. I know I sound like the enemy and I dislike including this paragraph: But keep in mind, I can’t stand Donald Trump and didn’t vote for him.
zo1 2y ago
Come on. We all know Trump effing talks weird, that's just part of his weird personality that no one likes. I don't like it, think it's confusing and winding around requiring much mental parsing to understand even for normal stories/sentences. But to take this tiny little sentence as definitive proof of some giant plan that's coming to end democracy is just... mental gymnastics in search of meaning for a narrative that they've already decided it means. Here is the Full quote so everyone can see it. He even explains in the end what he means. > "And again, Christians: Get out and vote! Just this time. You won't have to do it anymore! Four more years, you know what? It'll be fixed, it'll be fine, you won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians, I love you Christians, I'm not Christian, I love you, get out, you gotta get and vote. In four years you don't have to vote again, we'll have it fixed so good you're not gonna have to vote." From Snopes: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  I'm just listening to his words and assuming he means what he says. He is either insulting his followers, or he is telling them he will "fix" the country in such a way that they won't have to vote any more. You can interpret this to mean he will try to subvert the electoral result again, or you can interpret it to mean that he plans to make some kind of permanent change so that christian voters will no longer be required to vote to achieve their goals. Which is it?
  - lolinder 2y ago
    > I'm just listening to his words and assuming he means what he says. That's not how language works. There's a whole field of linguistics called pragmatics that is about how context contributes to meaning [0]. You're taking a few seconds of his words, joining them to all of your priors, and interpreting them in that context. His original listeners were taking his words in the context of the whole speech, joining them to their priors, and interpreting them in that context. It's entirely expected that your interpretation would be different than theirs given that disconnect, and the most reliable way to interpret meaning is to look at who the audience was and how they would have interpreted it, because the speaker chose their words for that context, not for yours. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics

dudefeliciano 2y ago

“You know, FDR 16 years – almost 16 years – he was four terms. I don’t know, are we going to be considered three-term? Or two-term?” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/19/trump-nra-convention-dallas https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/19/trum... he has vowed to be dictator on day one https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72 https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritar... On February 27th-the Reichstag in Berlin was set on fire. 4 weeks before, Hitler was appointed to chancellor. Hitler placed an urgency regulation to ban all political activities. He destroyed democracy in one month. Trump can now do it one day. he is definitely signaling something, whether it will come true or not is another question.

OmarShehata 2y ago

the missing context is that the Christian groups he was speaking to typically have low turn out/don't often come out to vote. He's asking them to please come out to vote, it's important this time. It's exactly the same rhetoric democrats use "this is the most important election, you really need to vote this time, this time it really matters"