4 ms·

What did you find exhausting, specifically? Just trying to understand your comment.

jvanderbot 2y ago
Not GP, but I've made similar transitions: > Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target. Can be exhausting. You have to either join in, be a target, or both.
- ein0p 2y ago
  So can "corporate talk" at a white collar job. There are days where I want to vomit after hearing about "stakeholders", "action items", and "alignment". I'd prefer crude jokes to that, even if they were directed at me.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    It's a little different when people are regularly talking about your genitals or sexual preferences or histories or your family reputation. And in public. And in team meetings. That kind of thing rarely comes up in corporate america. In corp/academia people just like to imply you're lazy or unintelligent, subtly and frequently. But yeah, white collar jobs are annoying as well. That's why we all get paid to do them.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      I think everyone else is assuming a different level and amount of personal insults when we discuss “shop talk”.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        Because I've heard different levels and amounts of insults. It can just be some harmless dad jokes and softball stuff you'd hear in white collar work. It can just be outright sexual harassment. It depends so much on your environment that it's hard to pin down a universal "standard" .
- xeromal 2y ago
  I've found that the shop talk communities end up with stronger bonds and generally more real friendships vs office friendships which are very weak. It makes me think it's a somewhat innate way to foster relationships. It definitely seems to break down walls. I've come to learn that the more a group roasts you the more they like you.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    I kind of agree... My strongest lifelong work friends definitely came from grad school where none of that happened. Or from research work where it didn't either. But there it was pressure and performance and cooperation that helped. It breeds trust. In blue collar work, esp team oriented which it often is, I'm not sure it's the shop talk or the team/trust environment. Either way i felt the same bond to people making pizza 5 busy nights in a row as I did late night coding sprints while pair programming, or contorting under the steel hull of a target boat to reach a bad CPU while my colleague watched the terminal while seasick and we are both drinking diesel funes. It's about shared trust I think. The level of casualness of shop talk is just an indicator and kind of a stress test of bonds.
    - xeromal 2y ago
      Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's something about the level of pressure but a lot of us software guys have pressure but don't get the same relationships blue collar workers get. I've done both industries (industrial construction and programming), and I definitely found it much easier to make lasting friendships in the construction one even though I experienced similar pressures It's something to do with the casualness or gruffness of it that makes it better. Office environments are so sterile. Maybe it's the lack of HR. lol
      - jvanderbot 2y ago
        Also it's easier to talk, and you're constantly moving around. Focus is paramount in SWeng, which is the same as "leave me alone".
  - 2y ago

Not GP, but I've made similar transitions: > Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target. Can be exhausting. You have to either join in, be a target, or both.

ein0p 2y ago
So can "corporate talk" at a white collar job. There are days where I want to vomit after hearing about "stakeholders", "action items", and "alignment". I'd prefer crude jokes to that, even if they were directed at me.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  It's a little different when people are regularly talking about your genitals or sexual preferences or histories or your family reputation. And in public. And in team meetings. That kind of thing rarely comes up in corporate america. In corp/academia people just like to imply you're lazy or unintelligent, subtly and frequently. But yeah, white collar jobs are annoying as well. That's why we all get paid to do them.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    I think everyone else is assuming a different level and amount of personal insults when we discuss “shop talk”.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Because I've heard different levels and amounts of insults. It can just be some harmless dad jokes and softball stuff you'd hear in white collar work. It can just be outright sexual harassment. It depends so much on your environment that it's hard to pin down a universal "standard" .
xeromal 2y ago
I've found that the shop talk communities end up with stronger bonds and generally more real friendships vs office friendships which are very weak. It makes me think it's a somewhat innate way to foster relationships. It definitely seems to break down walls. I've come to learn that the more a group roasts you the more they like you.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  I kind of agree... My strongest lifelong work friends definitely came from grad school where none of that happened. Or from research work where it didn't either. But there it was pressure and performance and cooperation that helped. It breeds trust. In blue collar work, esp team oriented which it often is, I'm not sure it's the shop talk or the team/trust environment. Either way i felt the same bond to people making pizza 5 busy nights in a row as I did late night coding sprints while pair programming, or contorting under the steel hull of a target boat to reach a bad CPU while my colleague watched the terminal while seasick and we are both drinking diesel funes. It's about shared trust I think. The level of casualness of shop talk is just an indicator and kind of a stress test of bonds.
  - xeromal 2y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It's something about the level of pressure but a lot of us software guys have pressure but don't get the same relationships blue collar workers get. I've done both industries (industrial construction and programming), and I definitely found it much easier to make lasting friendships in the construction one even though I experienced similar pressures It's something to do with the casualness or gruffness of it that makes it better. Office environments are so sterile. Maybe it's the lack of HR. lol
    - jvanderbot 2y ago
      Also it's easier to talk, and you're constantly moving around. Focus is paramount in SWeng, which is the same as "leave me alone".
- 2y ago