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It's not a conspiracy theory. Trump literally tried overturning the last election via fraud and violence. It's incredibly well documented. In any case we're en

It's not a conspiracy theory. Trump literally tried overturning the last election via fraud and violence. It's incredibly well documented. In any case we're entering the find out phase.

lolinder 2y ago
It's literally a conspiracy theory, the question at hand is whether there really is a conspiracy. My point is not that they're wrong and Trump won't successfully end democracy (I think the odds are low but non-zero), my point is that the strategy blew up in the DNC's faces and should have been identified as a terrible plan from the start. Being a Cassandra is not a winning playbook. Being able to say "I told you so" is small comfort, and that's the package they chose when they decided to make themselves look crazy to the electorate. If they believed democracy to be in danger the correct move was to nominate an electable candidate last year, not wait until Biden turned out to be unelectable and then start screaming about the end of democracy.
- klipt 2y ago
  Now Trump in 2024 is even older than Biden when he assumed office in 2020. I doubt Trump will be calling the shots for all four years.
  - iinnPP 2y ago
    Casual age discrimination.
    - klipt 2y ago
      Have you listened to Trump's recent speeches? In 2016 he was very articulate and persuasive in his own way, but in 2024 his brain is clearly on the way out.
    - aredox 2y ago
      Have you read an actual transcript of Trump's words? Not the "sanitized" summary you find in media: the actual transcript? https://www.instagram.com/billpascrell/p/C8DljJURzmv/ https://www.instagram.com/billpascrell/p/C8DljJURzmv/
      - klipt 2y ago
        Seems he took "jumping the shark" literally.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
JohnMakin 2y ago
It's not, but, you have to ask a question - if democrats believe this, and this is the correct messaging, why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality? Or even propose a plan going forward as to how to prevent this again? Nothing came of Jan 6, nothing came of any of this, no matter who won, and it was very obvious that the plan was just "well as long as we're in power we won't slide into authoritarianism," but even if it wasn't Trump, eventually someone else is going to come along and beat them and begin wherever Trump left off. It's not very good messaging at its core. You can't say something is an existential crisis, and then spend 4 years doing absolutely nothing about that crisis other than to say "vote for me again so that won't happen this time."
- klipt 2y ago
  > why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality? You mean like passing "The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022"? That was literally written to support democracy and prevent another Jan 6. Obviously you can't write legislation to stop Trump winning democratically while still supporting democracy. Dems have at least shown they're the party of supporting real democracy.
- hipadev23 2y ago
  > why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1139951463/electoral-count-act-reform-passes https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1139951463/electoral-count-ac...
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    This is like using a squirt gun in a forest fire. A meaningless change to a meaningless procedural "loophole" that had no chance of working whatsoever.
- mtswish 2y ago
  They impeached him. Counter to Republican's rhetoric, the Democrats can't force the DOJ to press charges in a timely manner, but the DOJ eventually also pursued charges. So they attempted to fix this with: 1. Impeachment 2. Congressional Acts 3. Independent action from the Department of Justice 4. Individual states attempted to get him off their ballots for treason How about you describe what they should have done?

It's not a conspiracy theory. Trump literally tried overturning the last election via fraud and violence. It's incredibly well documented. In any case we're entering the find out phase.

lolinder 2y ago

It's literally a conspiracy theory, the question at hand is whether there really is a conspiracy. My point is not that they're wrong and Trump won't successfully end democracy (I think the odds are low but non-zero), my point is that the strategy blew up in the DNC's faces and should have been identified as a terrible plan from the start. Being a Cassandra is not a winning playbook. Being able to say "I told you so" is small comfort, and that's the package they chose when they decided to make themselves look crazy to the electorate. If they believed democracy to be in danger the correct move was to nominate an electable candidate last year, not wait until Biden turned out to be unelectable and then start screaming about the end of democracy.

klipt 2y ago
Now Trump in 2024 is even older than Biden when he assumed office in 2020. I doubt Trump will be calling the shots for all four years.
- iinnPP 2y ago
  Casual age discrimination.
  - klipt 2y ago
    Have you listened to Trump's recent speeches? In 2016 he was very articulate and persuasive in his own way, but in 2024 his brain is clearly on the way out.
  - aredox 2y ago
    Have you read an actual transcript of Trump's words? Not the "sanitized" summary you find in media: the actual transcript? https://www.instagram.com/billpascrell/p/C8DljJURzmv/ https://www.instagram.com/billpascrell/p/C8DljJURzmv/
    - klipt 2y ago
      Seems he took "jumping the shark" literally.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

JohnMakin 2y ago

It's not, but, you have to ask a question - if democrats believe this, and this is the correct messaging, why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality? Or even propose a plan going forward as to how to prevent this again? Nothing came of Jan 6, nothing came of any of this, no matter who won, and it was very obvious that the plan was just "well as long as we're in power we won't slide into authoritarianism," but even if it wasn't Trump, eventually someone else is going to come along and beat them and begin wherever Trump left off. It's not very good messaging at its core. You can't say something is an existential crisis, and then spend 4 years doing absolutely nothing about that crisis other than to say "vote for me again so that won't happen this time."

klipt 2y ago
> why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality? You mean like passing "The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022"? That was literally written to support democracy and prevent another Jan 6. Obviously you can't write legislation to stop Trump winning democratically while still supporting democracy. Dems have at least shown they're the party of supporting real democracy.
hipadev23 2y ago
> why did they do practically nothing to prevent things like this from becoming a reality https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1139951463/electoral-count-act-reform-passes https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1139951463/electoral-count-ac...
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  This is like using a squirt gun in a forest fire. A meaningless change to a meaningless procedural "loophole" that had no chance of working whatsoever.
mtswish 2y ago
They impeached him. Counter to Republican's rhetoric, the Democrats can't force the DOJ to press charges in a timely manner, but the DOJ eventually also pursued charges. So they attempted to fix this with: 1. Impeachment 2. Congressional Acts 3. Independent action from the Department of Justice 4. Individual states attempted to get him off their ballots for treason How about you describe what they should have done?