9 ms·

[flagged]

by aredox 2y ago

[flagged]

medo-bear 2y ago
As opposed to what the mass media has been doing and will continue to do ?
- jonathanstrange 2y ago
  Ah, the self-proclaimed mass media critics! Everyone else is somehow badly influenced by the nasty mass media but they see right through it with their superior intellect. They don't need correspondents and professionals to actually go where something is happening, they know the truth intuitively, perhaps even a priori.
  - keybored 2y ago
    One role of the media is to set the Overton Window. And to more generally set the confines for reasonable opinion. Have you been living under a rock?
  - RpmReviver 2y ago
    It's not about superior intellect, it's about incentive structures Looking at how the incentive structures are laid out, it's clear there's no incentive to be honest to normal people. They need the advertising dollars to exist, and we are suppose to trust big pharma's enormous advertising budget doesn't impact the business decisions at media companies? That's just big pharma, who else is playing the game? There's no medical test to diagnose depression, all you can do is observe behavior and talk about it Seeing bad behavior and lies over and over, decade after decade erodes trust and reveals the kind of people they are, if it was some radical group with no real power there would be less concern, but they have a tremendous amount of money and influence
    - EricDeb 2y ago
      Equally bad incentives apply to smaller ("alternative") media outlets right wingers consume.
      - wahern 2y ago
        Fox News is by a huge margin the most popular news outlet. Throw in the New York Post (huge presence on the internet) and the WSJ, and conservative media is the mainstream media at this point. They also shilled for Trump relentlessly, without pretense. But that's beside the point. The left should accept that they no longer represent the aspirations and priorities of the mainstream or even of ethnic minorities, and the right should stop with the underdog charade. They've swapped sides. Of course, neither side will make that admission anytime soon.
        RpmReviver 2y ago
        Mainstream media is Joe Rogan and whoever else your favorite comedian, business leader, scientist, or political analyst is
        medo-bear 2y ago
        That is not mass media. Mass media is what your parents listen to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_endorsements_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_endorsements_in_t...
        medo-bear 2y ago
        The "left" (whatever this means today) sold out the working class. It is plain and simple
      - RpmReviver 2y ago
        Most right winners are listening to podcasts at this point, I don't think Joe Rogan's incentives are as equally bad when comparing to an industry that manufactured the opium epidemic or ones that constantly lie
        EricDeb 2y ago
        Joe Rogan is fine I was thinking more these folks: https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential-election-influencers-trump-999435273dd39edf7468c6aa34fad5dd https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential...
  - lynx23 2y ago
    You can defend the ministry of truth as much as you want. There has been too much deception in recent years, people simply stop believing it. The meda were always there to steer "democracies", they even outright admit it by saying they are an integral part of the democratic process. People start to see through this deception.
    - aredox 2y ago
      Given that Trump is a well know career crook and got a lanslide, I would argue that people are just even more gullible than ever.
- repeekad 2y ago
  You won’t get much traction on here but you’re right, I think democrats often project issues actually happening on their own side
- cjfd 2y ago
  Meh, you can watch MSNBC or Fox for quite different messages. Of course, the fascists are not complaining about the media because there is actually something wrong but to justify the eventual censorship.
- stormfather 2y ago
  You're right. The media has been corrupted. It's only logical, over time the media is corrupted as an outgrowth of the Pareto principle applied to politics. Eventually all political systems are corrupted because those with power use their advantage to accrue more power in a self-reinforcing cycle. The media, as an obvious lever of power, is subject to this, just as are regulatory agencies, congresspeople, social media sites, etc. I don't understand how such an intelligent userbase can be so willfully blind and naive. What began to open my eyes was the pandemic and the Ukraine war. Not that the establishment positions were necessarily wrong, but I felt the manipulation was easy to sense.
lolinder 2y ago
Part of the reason why Harris lost is because this line about democracy ending if Trump wins is about all she could offer as a reason to vote for her, and the average voter doesn't believe it. I guess now we'll all get to see if the dire warnings were at all founded in reality, but it was a critical mistake to turn up the rhetoric so hot and not realize that it made the moderate voters take her less seriously. It was just a bad strategy in every way: it reduced their odds of winning the election, and if they were right it won't matter because there will be no election. If they were wrong, then they burned a whole bunch of credibility pushing what turned out to be a conspiracy theory. And if both parties are conspiracy theory parties, the moderate voter can't use that as a razor.
- BWStearns 2y ago
  It's not a conspiracy theory. Trump literally tried overturning the last election via fraud and violence. It's incredibly well documented. In any case we're entering the find out phase.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    It's literally a conspiracy theory, the question at hand is whether there really is a conspiracy. My point is not that they're wrong and Trump won't successfully end democracy (I think the odds are low but non-zero), my point is that the strategy blew up in the DNC's faces and should have been identified as a terrible plan from the start. Being a Cassandra is not a winning playbook. Being able to say "I told you so" is small comfort, and that's the package they chose when they decided to make themselves look crazy to the electorate. If they believed democracy to be in danger the correct move was to nominate an electable candidate last year, not wait until Biden turned out to be unelectable and then start screaming about the end of democracy.
    - klipt 2y ago
      Now Trump in 2024 is even older than Biden when he assumed office in 2020. I doubt Trump will be calling the shots for all four years.
encoderer 2y ago
This is hyperbole.
- objektif 2y ago
  It is a deliberate attempt to scaremonger people into voting for Kamala.
- hobs 2y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/donald-trump-wont-have-to-vote-anymore-fox-interview https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/dona... from the man's lips to your ears.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Did you even listen to the video clip in the article? > It’s true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group, they don’t vote. And I’m explaining that to them. You never vote. This time, vote. I’ll straighten out the country, you won’t have to vote any more, I won’t need your vote any more, you can go back to not voting. I hate Trump as much as anyone, but deliberately misconstruing every word he says is part of what cost Democrats the election. People saw through it.
    - rkeene2 2y ago
      I think that given the context that he illegally tried to retain power after losing in 2020 that many people infer something into his words about reducing the need to vote
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        No, I think lolinder is correct. People don't like being told "here is what was said, here is what was MEANT because you're not educated enough and can't possibly understand" did Harris zero favors.
lupusreal 2y ago
Give it some time; this hyperbolic election rhetoric will wear off and eventually you'll be ashamed to admit you ever fell for it.
- aydyn 2y ago
  Given that this is a repeat of 2016, it wont wear off and they wont be ashamed. Yeah the crowd that touts itself as highly intelligent and techno-savvy apparently cant learn simple lessons.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Given the voting trends, many who initially fell for it eventually recovered over the next 8 years.
- lymbo 2y ago
  The way I see it is that Trump’s policies, if acted upon, will have a delayed effect. I see it as a major event contributing to the rebirth of authoritarianism in the 21st century. I think selfishly doing Trump’s America for four years by pumping money into oil production, cutting back on contributions to global stability, and creating distrust in alliances could have disastrous consequences over the next couple of decades. I believe the current structure of techno-feudalism will only become more concrete with the erosion of science and education. Whether there are immediate consequences to this leadership or not, I’m very pessimistic for the future. What are some other perspectives or predictions regarding how things will go under this current Trump admin; namely foreign policy, global stability, and school system reform?
- fire_lake 2y ago
  I suppose it depends how much you take Trump at his word. Does he really intend to do the things he says he will or it just fun rhetoric for the base?
andrewla 2y ago
I'm a little bewildered by this sort of prediction. How will you update your priors in 2028 when this doesn't happen? What will be the excuse for why this didn't happen?
- lm28469 2y ago
  It's insane, exactly the same slippery slope fallacy as "the left want to make your kids gay", people completely lost their mind on both side of the spectrum
  - aredox 2y ago
    What was insane was Jan 6th. Both sides are not the same.
- arcticbull 2y ago
  I dunno, to quote the new top dog "in four years, you won't have to vote again" I'd say if it doesn't happen he failed to deliver on an election promise. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-christians-they-wont-have-vote-after-this-election-2024-07-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-christians-they...
  - marknutter 2y ago
    Are you sure you know exactly what he meant by that?
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      That was the line the news media took for the first year or two - "we can't read his mind, so we can't call it a lie!" It's a mistake not to at least credit his own words and the logical conclusions they result in. https://apnews.com/general-news-domestic-news-domestic-news-united-states-government-88675d3fdd674c7c9ec70f170f6e4a1a https://apnews.com/general-news-domestic-news-domestic-news-...
    - dimator 2y ago
sabarn01 2y ago
I am 100% sure there will be an election in 2028.
- aredox 2y ago
  Yes,just like there are elections in Hungary, or Venezuela, or there were elections in the Soviet bloc. You will have your banana elections for your banana Republic all right.
  - sabarn01 2y ago
    How would that work in our system. The election are distrusted and open by law. Trump is an authoritarian who will test the system but the system will hold.

[flagged]

by aredox 2y ago

[flagged]

medo-bear 2y ago

As opposed to what the mass media has been doing and will continue to do ?

jonathanstrange 2y ago
Ah, the self-proclaimed mass media critics! Everyone else is somehow badly influenced by the nasty mass media but they see right through it with their superior intellect. They don't need correspondents and professionals to actually go where something is happening, they know the truth intuitively, perhaps even a priori.
- keybored 2y ago
  One role of the media is to set the Overton Window. And to more generally set the confines for reasonable opinion. Have you been living under a rock?
- RpmReviver 2y ago
  It's not about superior intellect, it's about incentive structures Looking at how the incentive structures are laid out, it's clear there's no incentive to be honest to normal people. They need the advertising dollars to exist, and we are suppose to trust big pharma's enormous advertising budget doesn't impact the business decisions at media companies? That's just big pharma, who else is playing the game? There's no medical test to diagnose depression, all you can do is observe behavior and talk about it Seeing bad behavior and lies over and over, decade after decade erodes trust and reveals the kind of people they are, if it was some radical group with no real power there would be less concern, but they have a tremendous amount of money and influence
  - EricDeb 2y ago
    Equally bad incentives apply to smaller ("alternative") media outlets right wingers consume.
    - wahern 2y ago
      Fox News is by a huge margin the most popular news outlet. Throw in the New York Post (huge presence on the internet) and the WSJ, and conservative media is the mainstream media at this point. They also shilled for Trump relentlessly, without pretense. But that's beside the point. The left should accept that they no longer represent the aspirations and priorities of the mainstream or even of ethnic minorities, and the right should stop with the underdog charade. They've swapped sides. Of course, neither side will make that admission anytime soon.
      - RpmReviver 2y ago
        Mainstream media is Joe Rogan and whoever else your favorite comedian, business leader, scientist, or political analyst is
        medo-bear 2y ago
        That is not mass media. Mass media is what your parents listen to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_endorsements_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_endorsements_in_t...
      - medo-bear 2y ago
        The "left" (whatever this means today) sold out the working class. It is plain and simple
    - RpmReviver 2y ago
      Most right winners are listening to podcasts at this point, I don't think Joe Rogan's incentives are as equally bad when comparing to an industry that manufactured the opium epidemic or ones that constantly lie
      - EricDeb 2y ago
        Joe Rogan is fine I was thinking more these folks: https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential-election-influencers-trump-999435273dd39edf7468c6aa34fad5dd https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential...
- lynx23 2y ago
  You can defend the ministry of truth as much as you want. There has been too much deception in recent years, people simply stop believing it. The meda were always there to steer "democracies", they even outright admit it by saying they are an integral part of the democratic process. People start to see through this deception.
  - aredox 2y ago
    Given that Trump is a well know career crook and got a lanslide, I would argue that people are just even more gullible than ever.
repeekad 2y ago
You won’t get much traction on here but you’re right, I think democrats often project issues actually happening on their own side
cjfd 2y ago
Meh, you can watch MSNBC or Fox for quite different messages. Of course, the fascists are not complaining about the media because there is actually something wrong but to justify the eventual censorship.
stormfather 2y ago
You're right. The media has been corrupted. It's only logical, over time the media is corrupted as an outgrowth of the Pareto principle applied to politics. Eventually all political systems are corrupted because those with power use their advantage to accrue more power in a self-reinforcing cycle. The media, as an obvious lever of power, is subject to this, just as are regulatory agencies, congresspeople, social media sites, etc. I don't understand how such an intelligent userbase can be so willfully blind and naive. What began to open my eyes was the pandemic and the Ukraine war. Not that the establishment positions were necessarily wrong, but I felt the manipulation was easy to sense.

lolinder 2y ago

Part of the reason why Harris lost is because this line about democracy ending if Trump wins is about all she could offer as a reason to vote for her, and the average voter doesn't believe it. I guess now we'll all get to see if the dire warnings were at all founded in reality, but it was a critical mistake to turn up the rhetoric so hot and not realize that it made the moderate voters take her less seriously. It was just a bad strategy in every way: it reduced their odds of winning the election, and if they were right it won't matter because there will be no election. If they were wrong, then they burned a whole bunch of credibility pushing what turned out to be a conspiracy theory. And if both parties are conspiracy theory parties, the moderate voter can't use that as a razor.

BWStearns 2y ago
It's not a conspiracy theory. Trump literally tried overturning the last election via fraud and violence. It's incredibly well documented. In any case we're entering the find out phase.
- lolinder 2y ago
  It's literally a conspiracy theory, the question at hand is whether there really is a conspiracy. My point is not that they're wrong and Trump won't successfully end democracy (I think the odds are low but non-zero), my point is that the strategy blew up in the DNC's faces and should have been identified as a terrible plan from the start. Being a Cassandra is not a winning playbook. Being able to say "I told you so" is small comfort, and that's the package they chose when they decided to make themselves look crazy to the electorate. If they believed democracy to be in danger the correct move was to nominate an electable candidate last year, not wait until Biden turned out to be unelectable and then start screaming about the end of democracy.
  - klipt 2y ago
    Now Trump in 2024 is even older than Biden when he assumed office in 2020. I doubt Trump will be calling the shots for all four years.

encoderer 2y ago

This is hyperbole.

objektif 2y ago
It is a deliberate attempt to scaremonger people into voting for Kamala.
hobs 2y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/donald-trump-wont-have-to-vote-anymore-fox-interview https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/dona... from the man's lips to your ears.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Did you even listen to the video clip in the article? > It’s true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group, they don’t vote. And I’m explaining that to them. You never vote. This time, vote. I’ll straighten out the country, you won’t have to vote any more, I won’t need your vote any more, you can go back to not voting. I hate Trump as much as anyone, but deliberately misconstruing every word he says is part of what cost Democrats the election. People saw through it.
  - rkeene2 2y ago
    I think that given the context that he illegally tried to retain power after losing in 2020 that many people infer something into his words about reducing the need to vote
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      No, I think lolinder is correct. People don't like being told "here is what was said, here is what was MEANT because you're not educated enough and can't possibly understand" did Harris zero favors.

lupusreal 2y ago

Give it some time; this hyperbolic election rhetoric will wear off and eventually you'll be ashamed to admit you ever fell for it.

aydyn 2y ago
Given that this is a repeat of 2016, it wont wear off and they wont be ashamed. Yeah the crowd that touts itself as highly intelligent and techno-savvy apparently cant learn simple lessons.
- FredPret 2y ago
  Given the voting trends, many who initially fell for it eventually recovered over the next 8 years.
lymbo 2y ago
The way I see it is that Trump’s policies, if acted upon, will have a delayed effect. I see it as a major event contributing to the rebirth of authoritarianism in the 21st century. I think selfishly doing Trump’s America for four years by pumping money into oil production, cutting back on contributions to global stability, and creating distrust in alliances could have disastrous consequences over the next couple of decades. I believe the current structure of techno-feudalism will only become more concrete with the erosion of science and education. Whether there are immediate consequences to this leadership or not, I’m very pessimistic for the future. What are some other perspectives or predictions regarding how things will go under this current Trump admin; namely foreign policy, global stability, and school system reform?
fire_lake 2y ago
I suppose it depends how much you take Trump at his word. Does he really intend to do the things he says he will or it just fun rhetoric for the base?

andrewla 2y ago

I'm a little bewildered by this sort of prediction. How will you update your priors in 2028 when this doesn't happen? What will be the excuse for why this didn't happen?

lm28469 2y ago
It's insane, exactly the same slippery slope fallacy as "the left want to make your kids gay", people completely lost their mind on both side of the spectrum
- aredox 2y ago
  What was insane was Jan 6th. Both sides are not the same.
arcticbull 2y ago
I dunno, to quote the new top dog "in four years, you won't have to vote again" I'd say if it doesn't happen he failed to deliver on an election promise. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-christians-they-wont-have-vote-after-this-election-2024-07-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-tells-christians-they...
- marknutter 2y ago
  Are you sure you know exactly what he meant by that?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    That was the line the news media took for the first year or two - "we can't read his mind, so we can't call it a lie!" It's a mistake not to at least credit his own words and the logical conclusions they result in. https://apnews.com/general-news-domestic-news-domestic-news-united-states-government-88675d3fdd674c7c9ec70f170f6e4a1a https://apnews.com/general-news-domestic-news-domestic-news-...
  - dimator 2y ago

sabarn01 2y ago

I am 100% sure there will be an election in 2028.

aredox 2y ago
Yes,just like there are elections in Hungary, or Venezuela, or there were elections in the Soviet bloc. You will have your banana elections for your banana Republic all right.
- sabarn01 2y ago
  How would that work in our system. The election are distrusted and open by law. Trump is an authoritarian who will test the system but the system will hold.