6 ms·

For many this ended up with "Have i felt better over the past 4 years" . Imagine coming out of covid, without a recession, only to be hit with inflation (both

For many this ended up with "Have i felt better over the past 4 years" . Imagine coming out of covid, without a recession, only to be hit with inflation (both parties to blame) and sky high interest rates coupled with all other stuff like illegal border crossing to lack of majority support from Women to Harris to Harris being a silent VP for 4 full years and thrown to lime light.

tines 2y ago
> Have i felt better over the past 4 years I agree with you that for a lot of people this is what it came down to, which is so sad. Short-term thinking will lead us to destruction. Instead of asking whether things have improved over the last four years, think about what you want the country and the world to look like in ten, fifty, or a hundred years. And what other countries looked like ten, fifty, a hundred, a thousand years ago. Think about the rises and falls of other nations. Think about the fact that it's getting measurably hotter every year, and that one party doesn't even acknowledge that fact. Everything is more expensive, and yes, that sucks. But we've handed over the kingdom's keys to an authoritarian idiot who will dismantle the systems that took hundreds of years to establish. Rome wasn't built in a day, but it sure burned fast. > Harris being a silent VP for 4 full years and thrown to lime light. Funny that people constantly talk about how they're not voting for Trump, they're voting for the policies of the party etc. but then they can't apply the same rationale to the other side.
- eric-hu 2y ago
  > Funny that people constantly talk about how they're not voting for Trump, they're voting for the policies of the party etc. but then they can't apply the same rationale to the other side. Different people, different sides. I guess the Republican Party did something very well here compared to Democrats, though I don’t know what or how.
- frmersdog 2y ago
  >think about what you want the country and the world to look like in ten, fifty, or a hundred years. This is the candidate's job. She didn't center a coherent vision of the improved future only she could get the country to. Pick one thing that Trump wouldn't or couldn't run on, that wasn't just "getting back thing we lost (under our watch)." Green New Deal. Medicare For All. Defund the police. Build houses for everyone. Monorail. Anything for people to hang a hope on. But any big idea would piss off donor-investors who would be hurt by any change to the status quo. So she offered nothing.
  - tines 2y ago
    > She didn't center a coherent vision of the improved future only she could get the country to. So the default is to vote for a person who will run the world into the ground? I don't understand why the onus on the sane person to prove why they're going to make things better. I guess people think that any change is good change? Yet people voted Hitler into power. My take is that America was founded during a time of very high "mental activity" and engagement. In the 1700s people read for fun, the printing press just having been invented the prior century; and listened to candidates debate for hours, at a level of complexity that is beyond people today. A democracy takes that kind of mental energy and engagement to sustain. The citizens of the US seem to be too complacent, too uncaring, to uneducated to preserve their freedom, and so they won't keep it. Sad to see.
    - frmersdog 2y ago
      >So the default is to vote for a person who will run the world into the ground? The default is not to vote.
      - tines 2y ago
        Same thing.
        frmersdog 2y ago
        It is not, and we are going to continue facing frustration and defeat until people like you learn to accept and understand this. Putting it simply: no candidate is owed a vote. Declining to cast a ballot doesn't favor any candidate. It is true neutral.
        tines 2y ago
        It's really not neutral though in the outcome. It's as if a lever were going to be pulled to kill a bunch of people (for example) unless you pull on it the other way; and then you claim no responsibility for not pulling on the lever because merely "stopping the killing" wasn't a _positive enough_ outcome. When people are going to do bad things, and you can make things a lot less bad for a little effort, you have a responsibility to do that. Like, wouldn't you say that the people who didn't vote during Hitler's election should have voted for his opponent, no matter how unexciting their policies were? (Obviously Trump isn't like Hitler, but same principle to a smaller degree.)
tgv 2y ago
But that focuses on the person of the candidate. When you think that's important, there are a few remarks to be made about Trump. So why do you think this matters? The 15M missing voters?
akira2501 2y ago
> and thrown to lime light. She threw herself under the bus. She went thought a great deal of effort to end up there. It's the deftest act of self immolation I've seen in politics so far.
- AgentOrange1234 2y ago
  What are you talking about? Biden was utterly incoherent at the debate. She stepped up, and got the party behind her immediately, and brought hope back to the Democrats. In terms of her campaign, she did far better than we could have reasonably expected.
  - itake 2y ago
    What’s frustrating is democrats never got to pick o their candidate like the republicans did. There was no. The powers that be picked her and many people didn’t even realize there was a switch.
    - thijson 2y ago
      I was listening to a podcast where Tucker interviewed Paul Manafort. Manafort had some theories about how Kamala was chosen. He believes that Biden was pushed out by Obama and Pelosi after the first debate. As revenge Biden said he would nominate his VP, who he knew wasn't very popular.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > Biden was utterly incoherent at the debate. Which was so totally unpredictable? > and got the party behind her immediately I remember this quite differently. > and brought hope back to the Democrats. I honestly doubt it was anything other than trepidation masquerading as hope. She was the worst performing Democrat in the last open primaries. This hope was not based on anything other than an exigent fear of Trump. > she did far better than we could have reasonably expected. The metric, as always, is votes / campaign spend. Are you sure you've evaluated this earnestly?
polemic 2y ago
A very similar thing happened here in New Zealand where we tracked right with fairly dire and predictable consequences, from a left-wing government that was shouldering the blame for a whole lot of macroeconomic issues they had little control over. It doesn't really matter if they did the right thing or not - enough people were looking to punish them regardless.
yukinon 2y ago
I don't disagree with your message, but- > coupled with all other stuff like illegal border crossing I've seen a few comments talk about this, but this doesn't affect my day-to-day literally at all. This never crosses my mind because there aren't illegals I come across or maybe just don't ever cross paths with. Is this primarily a border state thing? If so, wouldn't that limit it to just CA, TX, NM, AZ? And only one of those is a swing state.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  You are clearly not representative, as so isn't most of HN, of the average demographic that has to worry about their blue collar jobs (whether that be a real risk or not)
  - cutemonster 2y ago
    People who worry about immigration, have their own job security in mind, rather than worrying about crime, you're saying? (Makes sense to me I guess, just sounds different from what Trump seemed to be taking about: crime and eating people's pets. I'm in Europe and don't know much.)
    - thehappypm 2y ago
      Middle America sees immigration as: Outsiders coming in and changing the society. People who don’t speak English sending their kids to their schools. Moving into their neighborhoods and making it more competitive for their friends and family to move into their neighborhoods. Creating “bad neighborhoods” and increasing crime.
      - cutemonster 2y ago
        Lots of different things then (you're saying), thanks
- cryptonector 2y ago
  At what rate of illegal crossings would you be affected?
cryptonector 2y ago
There was a tremendous drop in GDP during covid. I don't care how long that was, if it was one quarter or three, it's a recession.
lysecret 2y ago
Inflation happened all over the world due to post covid and the war how is and government to blame for this?

tines 2y ago

> Have i felt better over the past 4 years I agree with you that for a lot of people this is what it came down to, which is so sad. Short-term thinking will lead us to destruction. Instead of asking whether things have improved over the last four years, think about what you want the country and the world to look like in ten, fifty, or a hundred years. And what other countries looked like ten, fifty, a hundred, a thousand years ago. Think about the rises and falls of other nations. Think about the fact that it's getting measurably hotter every year, and that one party doesn't even acknowledge that fact. Everything is more expensive, and yes, that sucks. But we've handed over the kingdom's keys to an authoritarian idiot who will dismantle the systems that took hundreds of years to establish. Rome wasn't built in a day, but it sure burned fast. > Harris being a silent VP for 4 full years and thrown to lime light. Funny that people constantly talk about how they're not voting for Trump, they're voting for the policies of the party etc. but then they can't apply the same rationale to the other side.

eric-hu 2y ago
> Funny that people constantly talk about how they're not voting for Trump, they're voting for the policies of the party etc. but then they can't apply the same rationale to the other side. Different people, different sides. I guess the Republican Party did something very well here compared to Democrats, though I don’t know what or how.
frmersdog 2y ago
>think about what you want the country and the world to look like in ten, fifty, or a hundred years. This is the candidate's job. She didn't center a coherent vision of the improved future only she could get the country to. Pick one thing that Trump wouldn't or couldn't run on, that wasn't just "getting back thing we lost (under our watch)." Green New Deal. Medicare For All. Defund the police. Build houses for everyone. Monorail. Anything for people to hang a hope on. But any big idea would piss off donor-investors who would be hurt by any change to the status quo. So she offered nothing.
- tines 2y ago
  > She didn't center a coherent vision of the improved future only she could get the country to. So the default is to vote for a person who will run the world into the ground? I don't understand why the onus on the sane person to prove why they're going to make things better. I guess people think that any change is good change? Yet people voted Hitler into power. My take is that America was founded during a time of very high "mental activity" and engagement. In the 1700s people read for fun, the printing press just having been invented the prior century; and listened to candidates debate for hours, at a level of complexity that is beyond people today. A democracy takes that kind of mental energy and engagement to sustain. The citizens of the US seem to be too complacent, too uncaring, to uneducated to preserve their freedom, and so they won't keep it. Sad to see.
  - frmersdog 2y ago
    >So the default is to vote for a person who will run the world into the ground? The default is not to vote.
    - tines 2y ago
      Same thing.
      - frmersdog 2y ago
        It is not, and we are going to continue facing frustration and defeat until people like you learn to accept and understand this. Putting it simply: no candidate is owed a vote. Declining to cast a ballot doesn't favor any candidate. It is true neutral.
        tines 2y ago
        It's really not neutral though in the outcome. It's as if a lever were going to be pulled to kill a bunch of people (for example) unless you pull on it the other way; and then you claim no responsibility for not pulling on the lever because merely "stopping the killing" wasn't a _positive enough_ outcome. When people are going to do bad things, and you can make things a lot less bad for a little effort, you have a responsibility to do that. Like, wouldn't you say that the people who didn't vote during Hitler's election should have voted for his opponent, no matter how unexciting their policies were? (Obviously Trump isn't like Hitler, but same principle to a smaller degree.)

tgv 2y ago

But that focuses on the person of the candidate. When you think that's important, there are a few remarks to be made about Trump. So why do you think this matters? The 15M missing voters?

akira2501 2y ago

> and thrown to lime light. She threw herself under the bus. She went thought a great deal of effort to end up there. It's the deftest act of self immolation I've seen in politics so far.

AgentOrange1234 2y ago
What are you talking about? Biden was utterly incoherent at the debate. She stepped up, and got the party behind her immediately, and brought hope back to the Democrats. In terms of her campaign, she did far better than we could have reasonably expected.
- itake 2y ago
  What’s frustrating is democrats never got to pick o their candidate like the republicans did. There was no. The powers that be picked her and many people didn’t even realize there was a switch.
  - thijson 2y ago
    I was listening to a podcast where Tucker interviewed Paul Manafort. Manafort had some theories about how Kamala was chosen. He believes that Biden was pushed out by Obama and Pelosi after the first debate. As revenge Biden said he would nominate his VP, who he knew wasn't very popular.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > Biden was utterly incoherent at the debate. Which was so totally unpredictable? > and got the party behind her immediately I remember this quite differently. > and brought hope back to the Democrats. I honestly doubt it was anything other than trepidation masquerading as hope. She was the worst performing Democrat in the last open primaries. This hope was not based on anything other than an exigent fear of Trump. > she did far better than we could have reasonably expected. The metric, as always, is votes / campaign spend. Are you sure you've evaluated this earnestly?

polemic 2y ago

A very similar thing happened here in New Zealand where we tracked right with fairly dire and predictable consequences, from a left-wing government that was shouldering the blame for a whole lot of macroeconomic issues they had little control over. It doesn't really matter if they did the right thing or not - enough people were looking to punish them regardless.

yukinon 2y ago

I don't disagree with your message, but- > coupled with all other stuff like illegal border crossing I've seen a few comments talk about this, but this doesn't affect my day-to-day literally at all. This never crosses my mind because there aren't illegals I come across or maybe just don't ever cross paths with. Is this primarily a border state thing? If so, wouldn't that limit it to just CA, TX, NM, AZ? And only one of those is a swing state.

hackernewds 2y ago
You are clearly not representative, as so isn't most of HN, of the average demographic that has to worry about their blue collar jobs (whether that be a real risk or not)
- cutemonster 2y ago
  People who worry about immigration, have their own job security in mind, rather than worrying about crime, you're saying? (Makes sense to me I guess, just sounds different from what Trump seemed to be taking about: crime and eating people's pets. I'm in Europe and don't know much.)
  - thehappypm 2y ago
    Middle America sees immigration as: Outsiders coming in and changing the society. People who don’t speak English sending their kids to their schools. Moving into their neighborhoods and making it more competitive for their friends and family to move into their neighborhoods. Creating “bad neighborhoods” and increasing crime.
    - cutemonster 2y ago
      Lots of different things then (you're saying), thanks
cryptonector 2y ago
At what rate of illegal crossings would you be affected?

cryptonector 2y ago

There was a tremendous drop in GDP during covid. I don't care how long that was, if it was one quarter or three, it's a recession.

lysecret 2y ago

Inflation happened all over the world due to post covid and the war how is and government to blame for this?