5 ms·

Who doesn't feel safe doing that? This does not seem like a real problem to me. Nearly everyone speaks freely about their views all the time.

kelipso 2y ago
No...you get ostracized or cancelled in many social circles for indicating that you might support Trump or Republican policies. Even mild ostracization would make people hesitate to voice their opinions, never mind the level it is currently.
- consteval 2y ago
  This is, largely, because a lot of republicans have a difficult time expressing their views without using tools like racism and misogyny. Just take a look at the Trump rallies. Even if you agree with 100% of Trump's policies, look at how he talks about women. Could you repeat what he says in the workplace? No, you'd get fired. Not for being republican, but for sexual harassment. If you were able to support anti-immigration policies without calling entire classes of people "garbage", then maybe people wouldn't get mad at you. But for a lot of republicans, they just can't do that. They don't know how to word their policy support without saying something incredibly offensive. Or, for example, it's one thing if you're pro-life. But a lot of republicans will use words like "slut" and "whore", and even President Trump wants to "punish women". Again, this just isn't acceptable speech in most social situations. Until your average republican and, hell, our president, figure out how to address these topics without being offensive, people will get offended.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    This is basically all TDS. Does my Colombian immigrant wife somehow hate immigrants and women because she thinks Trump would be better than Kamala?
    - consteval 2y ago
      Of course she doesn't. But, can she express that without saying it in a way that says "I hate immigrants"? This is what I'm pointing out. Having republican beliefs is fine. Can republicans voice those beliefs without bigotry? Often no. For Trump, certainly not. For many, they can't either. If you just say "Trump addresses immigrant better", then okay. If you say "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, we have to clean up our country" then... yeah you're getting pulled into HR.
      - cynicalpeace 2y ago
        I have never heard Trump say he hates immigrants. His wife is literally an immigrant. Do you actually believe he hates immigrants? Actually hating immigrants and being politically (and sometimes factually) incorrect are two different things. The latter is forgivable.
        sanderjd 2y ago
        It's essentially the first thing he said when he kicked off his campaign in 2015.
        cynicalpeace 2y ago
        > It's essentially So he didn't say it.
        sanderjd 2y ago
        This may be news to you, but human language is often nuanced and indirect. It is a perfectly reasonable short-hand to say that he hates immigrants when his political career was launched on painting them as criminals, drug dealers, and rapists. This kind of "but he didn't actually say the word hate" pedantry is unconvincing.
        cynicalpeace 2y ago
  - idunnoman1222 2y ago
    the men in your life are dishonest with you. You will never know what people really think (and no one will be able to explain why to you because you won’t hear them)
    - consteval 2y ago
      I absolutely hear them, but they're incapable of voicing their beliefs without bigotry. You can say, for example, that there are challenges to gender-neutral bathrooms. Okay that's fine. You can't say "those dirty pervy <slurs> are molesting our little girls!". Do you see how that's now bigotry? How many republicans are able to do 1 without ever touching 2? Very, very few. Certainly Trump can't, and Cruz can't either. If those are your role models then it's no wonder you can't express your beliefs.
- cmptrnerd6 2y ago
  Or you get ostracized for saying you don't want to have to involve lawyers to get your wife the medical care she needs. Depends on where you are in the country.
TheSisb2 2y ago
Apparently people that support Trump
- sanderjd 2y ago
  I really think this conventional wisdom is drastically overblown. Especially in places like this, which are San Francisco liberal adjacent. Yes, it is not surprising that people who are in the minority in a place with a strong majority viewpoint are less excited to rock the boat. But very few places are like San Francisco.
dilap 2y ago
I promise you this is not the case.
kelnos 2y ago
In liberal strongholds (like SF, where I live), many conservatives will hide their political views for fear of social alienation. I've experienced this directly, when someone I'd recently met sort of sheepishly/obliquely brought up that they supported Trump. That fear is warranted: I really had less interest in developing a closer friendship with that person after learning that. It was especially jarring to me that this person was a non-white woman, and I just cannot understand how someone can support someone whose rhetoric demeans her on two axes. I expect the same happens in conservative strongholds too, with liberals self-censoring. I know I wouldn't be comfortable openly discussing my (leftist) political views in, say, suburban Texas.
- SirMaster 2y ago
  >I really had less interest in developing a closer friendship with that person after learning that. >I just cannot understand how someone can support someone whose rhetoric demeans her on two axes. Hmm. Doesn't seem like you are interested in understanding.
umvi 2y ago
> Nearly everyone speaks freely about their views all the time How do you know they are speaking freely and not just trying to fit in while secretly cloaking their true thoughts and views?

kelipso 2y ago

No...you get ostracized or cancelled in many social circles for indicating that you might support Trump or Republican policies. Even mild ostracization would make people hesitate to voice their opinions, never mind the level it is currently.

consteval 2y ago
This is, largely, because a lot of republicans have a difficult time expressing their views without using tools like racism and misogyny. Just take a look at the Trump rallies. Even if you agree with 100% of Trump's policies, look at how he talks about women. Could you repeat what he says in the workplace? No, you'd get fired. Not for being republican, but for sexual harassment. If you were able to support anti-immigration policies without calling entire classes of people "garbage", then maybe people wouldn't get mad at you. But for a lot of republicans, they just can't do that. They don't know how to word their policy support without saying something incredibly offensive. Or, for example, it's one thing if you're pro-life. But a lot of republicans will use words like "slut" and "whore", and even President Trump wants to "punish women". Again, this just isn't acceptable speech in most social situations. Until your average republican and, hell, our president, figure out how to address these topics without being offensive, people will get offended.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  This is basically all TDS. Does my Colombian immigrant wife somehow hate immigrants and women because she thinks Trump would be better than Kamala?
  - consteval 2y ago
    Of course she doesn't. But, can she express that without saying it in a way that says "I hate immigrants"? This is what I'm pointing out. Having republican beliefs is fine. Can republicans voice those beliefs without bigotry? Often no. For Trump, certainly not. For many, they can't either. If you just say "Trump addresses immigrant better", then okay. If you say "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, we have to clean up our country" then... yeah you're getting pulled into HR.
    - cynicalpeace 2y ago
      I have never heard Trump say he hates immigrants. His wife is literally an immigrant. Do you actually believe he hates immigrants? Actually hating immigrants and being politically (and sometimes factually) incorrect are two different things. The latter is forgivable.
      - sanderjd 2y ago
        It's essentially the first thing he said when he kicked off his campaign in 2015.
        cynicalpeace 2y ago
        > It's essentially So he didn't say it.
        sanderjd 2y ago
        This may be news to you, but human language is often nuanced and indirect. It is a perfectly reasonable short-hand to say that he hates immigrants when his political career was launched on painting them as criminals, drug dealers, and rapists. This kind of "but he didn't actually say the word hate" pedantry is unconvincing.
        cynicalpeace 2y ago
- idunnoman1222 2y ago
  the men in your life are dishonest with you. You will never know what people really think (and no one will be able to explain why to you because you won’t hear them)
  - consteval 2y ago
    I absolutely hear them, but they're incapable of voicing their beliefs without bigotry. You can say, for example, that there are challenges to gender-neutral bathrooms. Okay that's fine. You can't say "those dirty pervy <slurs> are molesting our little girls!". Do you see how that's now bigotry? How many republicans are able to do 1 without ever touching 2? Very, very few. Certainly Trump can't, and Cruz can't either. If those are your role models then it's no wonder you can't express your beliefs.
cmptrnerd6 2y ago
Or you get ostracized for saying you don't want to have to involve lawyers to get your wife the medical care she needs. Depends on where you are in the country.

TheSisb2 2y ago

Apparently people that support Trump

sanderjd 2y ago
I really think this conventional wisdom is drastically overblown. Especially in places like this, which are San Francisco liberal adjacent. Yes, it is not surprising that people who are in the minority in a place with a strong majority viewpoint are less excited to rock the boat. But very few places are like San Francisco.

dilap 2y ago

I promise you this is not the case.

kelnos 2y ago

In liberal strongholds (like SF, where I live), many conservatives will hide their political views for fear of social alienation. I've experienced this directly, when someone I'd recently met sort of sheepishly/obliquely brought up that they supported Trump. That fear is warranted: I really had less interest in developing a closer friendship with that person after learning that. It was especially jarring to me that this person was a non-white woman, and I just cannot understand how someone can support someone whose rhetoric demeans her on two axes. I expect the same happens in conservative strongholds too, with liberals self-censoring. I know I wouldn't be comfortable openly discussing my (leftist) political views in, say, suburban Texas.

SirMaster 2y ago
>I really had less interest in developing a closer friendship with that person after learning that. >I just cannot understand how someone can support someone whose rhetoric demeans her on two axes. Hmm. Doesn't seem like you are interested in understanding.

umvi 2y ago

> Nearly everyone speaks freely about their views all the time How do you know they are speaking freely and not just trying to fit in while secretly cloaking their true thoughts and views?