5 ms·

I agree with your larger point 100%. >> $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston In much of the US, $1,200/mo

by runako 14y ago

I agree with your larger point 100%. >> $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston In much of the US, $1,200/mo will buy you a house (or rent one). $1,200/mo is a fairly high rent for a 1-bedroom in much of the US; a private room in a shared apartment would obviously be correspondingly less.

ntkachov 14y ago
This is true, However you do miss out the on the people. I would guess something like this provides much more support for the participants than a simple 1 bedroom. I feel that being surrounded by like minded people working towards a familiar goal is far more valuable than an apartment.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- kintamanimatt 14y ago
  I'd love it if a (decent) study were done comparing the success rates of an entrepreneur in a start up hub, compared with those in areas without a start-up scene. I wonder if there really is a measurable difference that backs the hype.
  - dannyr 14y ago
    Dude, seriously, where have you been the last decade? This is like asking the success rate of an actor/actress in LA versus in other cities.
    - kintamanimatt 14y ago
      Well, no, because if we're talking about an internet startup, location is significantly less important. The nature of acting requires a physical presence in a particular location (i.e. the stage), but an internet-based startup has no such requirement. I can just as easily create a company in Amsterdam as I could from SF. One of the major benefits that's routinely touted is access to VC/angel. Something that most people forget is that the odds of getting such investment are relatively small and most start-ups thrive without it.
      - davidw 14y ago
        This book says that location is very important for 'innovation industries': http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008035HQQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008035HQQ&linkCode=as2&tag=dedasys-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008035HQQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...
        kintamanimatt 14y ago
        From the summary, it doesn't seem to imply geographic location is necessary for founders of start-ups, but more employees. It may even be becoming less necessary as companies are increasingly able to have a distributed, virtual workforce. Some of the most interesting businesses have employees that have never met -- Automattic is one that readily comes to mind. It does look like an interesting book though and I'll grab a copy.
        davidw 14y ago
        What the summary - and the book - is saying is that living in 'innovation hubs' is good not only for programmers, scientists and the like, but also for 'ordinary folks' who provide services to those people working directly in 'innovation'.
      - dannyr 14y ago
        The fact is if you are building a consumer startup & you want to get big, you're going to need funding unless you want to charge people & curb your growth. If you want to increase your likelihood to get funding, you have to be here in the Bay Area.
        kintamanimatt 14y ago
        The odds of getting VC are low -- only 1 in 400 pitches result in funding. [1] Of course, this number doesn't include the number of people who were rejected before they even had a chance to pitch a VC. I'm not sure why charging people is considered to be a shocking idea. A business is supposed to charge people, or find another way to make money, such as smothering eyeballs with advertising. I'd rather have a profitable company that has positive cash flow and a sustainable growth rate than a "big" company with a ton of freeloaders and external investment. If you're going to cite Twitter and Facebook as an example, the odds of you creating a similar company are akin to finding Willy Wonka's golden ticket. VC just isn't available or necessary in the vast majority of cases, negating the need to be in the Bay Area. Bear in mind that VCs are all over the place, from Boston to New York to London. The benefit you cited elsewhere that it's fun to be in the Bay Area is, however, the most compelling. The only true blue benefit I can see to even being in the US is access to better payment solutions, and possibly a culture that better supports brazen entrepreneurialism. [1] http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital/What-are-the-odds-of-getting-funded-by-the-first-VC-you-meet/answer/David-S-Rose http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital/What-are-the-odds-of-ge...
    - yesimahuman 14y ago
      I've thought about this argument before, and I realized that it just doesn't make sense. It's probably the most delusional way to describe building a business. Lest we forget, the old way of charging for something still works. In fact, with the internet, it's extremely easy to reach a huge international audience. Customers don't give one shit where you live. If you are trying to get a lot of big investors for your social platform that has to explode, sure, SF/SV is probably the absolute best for that, but you can start a business anywhere.
jocelynscrayons 14y ago
You could get a room for that amount, but you get it without the community, free breakfast, or instant friend group. Most people who stay at ChezJJ are only here for a short amount of time, like a few days, a few weeks or a few monts. It's incredibly difficult to find a room to rent for less than 6 months, and normally renters want a 12 month lease. It's too much of a hassel.
will_work4tears 14y ago
If all utilities are included it is a bit more of a deal if you ask me. That and weekly cleaning and counting the living space as a hacker space (of which membership could cost you a hundred+ a month).
stephencanon 14y ago
$1,200/month goes a long way in the bay area, too, if you have any idea what you're doing at all. As a graduate student at Berkeley, I had my own room in an apartment with a roof deck and uninterrupted bay view for $400/mo on a month-to-month lease in a great neighborhood. This was 6 years ago, but the same guy was still subletting the same rooms for the same price, when last I spoke to him. When I moved to the peninsula to work at Apple, I had a small house with a yard and fruit trees in the nice part of Menlo Park on a month-to-month lease for $1000/mo. This was 4 years ago, but similar deals can definitely still be found (the same house was rented for $1300/mo recently). Up to a year ago, my wife and I shared a lovely house with 1.5 acres in Palo Alto for $1800/mo, though we did need to sign a lease for that one. When I travel back to the bay area now, I get an airbnb-type room in Palo Alto, and don't typically pay more than $800/mo short-term. A lot of things are listed at higher rates, but you can often negotiate pretty successfully. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask. The ridiculous rents that you hear about in the bay area are partially due to a genuine real estate crunch, but they are largely also due to people having too much money and not enough sense. Paying $1200/mo for a dorm is nuts, no matter what city it's in.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  Absolutely. My friend was living in a studio on Hamilton Street in downtown Palo Alto for $1000/mo earlier this year. Additionally there are places in Sunnyvale that you can rent for a good deal which will let you shell out the $100/mo for access to Hacker Dojo which would only be a 15 minute drive away. Having lived in SV all my life, these "Hacker Hostels" just seem like a way for the operators to exploit those who flock to their services, who just don't know any better.
- nirvana 14y ago
  In fact, if someone is paying $1,200 a month for a dorm, then that tells you something about the kind of employee or co-founder they would be. No problem if they stay there for a couple weeks, up to a month, while getting situated or doing a bunch of meetings, but living there for months shows lack of judgement. You can get a hotel in Santa Clara- rack rate- for $50, and a nice one at that.

by runako 14y ago

ntkachov 14y ago

This is true, However you do miss out the on the people. I would guess something like this provides much more support for the participants than a simple 1 bedroom. I feel that being surrounded by like minded people working towards a familiar goal is far more valuable than an apartment.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
kintamanimatt 14y ago
I'd love it if a (decent) study were done comparing the success rates of an entrepreneur in a start up hub, compared with those in areas without a start-up scene. I wonder if there really is a measurable difference that backs the hype.
- dannyr 14y ago
  Dude, seriously, where have you been the last decade? This is like asking the success rate of an actor/actress in LA versus in other cities.
  - kintamanimatt 14y ago
    Well, no, because if we're talking about an internet startup, location is significantly less important. The nature of acting requires a physical presence in a particular location (i.e. the stage), but an internet-based startup has no such requirement. I can just as easily create a company in Amsterdam as I could from SF. One of the major benefits that's routinely touted is access to VC/angel. Something that most people forget is that the odds of getting such investment are relatively small and most start-ups thrive without it.
    - davidw 14y ago
      This book says that location is very important for 'innovation industries': http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008035HQQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008035HQQ&linkCode=as2&tag=dedasys-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008035HQQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...
      - kintamanimatt 14y ago
        From the summary, it doesn't seem to imply geographic location is necessary for founders of start-ups, but more employees. It may even be becoming less necessary as companies are increasingly able to have a distributed, virtual workforce. Some of the most interesting businesses have employees that have never met -- Automattic is one that readily comes to mind. It does look like an interesting book though and I'll grab a copy.
        davidw 14y ago
        What the summary - and the book - is saying is that living in 'innovation hubs' is good not only for programmers, scientists and the like, but also for 'ordinary folks' who provide services to those people working directly in 'innovation'.
    - dannyr 14y ago
      The fact is if you are building a consumer startup & you want to get big, you're going to need funding unless you want to charge people & curb your growth. If you want to increase your likelihood to get funding, you have to be here in the Bay Area.
      - kintamanimatt 14y ago
        The odds of getting VC are low -- only 1 in 400 pitches result in funding. [1] Of course, this number doesn't include the number of people who were rejected before they even had a chance to pitch a VC. I'm not sure why charging people is considered to be a shocking idea. A business is supposed to charge people, or find another way to make money, such as smothering eyeballs with advertising. I'd rather have a profitable company that has positive cash flow and a sustainable growth rate than a "big" company with a ton of freeloaders and external investment. If you're going to cite Twitter and Facebook as an example, the odds of you creating a similar company are akin to finding Willy Wonka's golden ticket. VC just isn't available or necessary in the vast majority of cases, negating the need to be in the Bay Area. Bear in mind that VCs are all over the place, from Boston to New York to London. The benefit you cited elsewhere that it's fun to be in the Bay Area is, however, the most compelling. The only true blue benefit I can see to even being in the US is access to better payment solutions, and possibly a culture that better supports brazen entrepreneurialism. [1] http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital/What-are-the-odds-of-getting-funded-by-the-first-VC-you-meet/answer/David-S-Rose http://www.quora.com/Venture-Capital/What-are-the-odds-of-ge...
  - yesimahuman 14y ago
    I've thought about this argument before, and I realized that it just doesn't make sense. It's probably the most delusional way to describe building a business. Lest we forget, the old way of charging for something still works. In fact, with the internet, it's extremely easy to reach a huge international audience. Customers don't give one shit where you live. If you are trying to get a lot of big investors for your social platform that has to explode, sure, SF/SV is probably the absolute best for that, but you can start a business anywhere.

jocelynscrayons 14y ago

You could get a room for that amount, but you get it without the community, free breakfast, or instant friend group. Most people who stay at ChezJJ are only here for a short amount of time, like a few days, a few weeks or a few monts. It's incredibly difficult to find a room to rent for less than 6 months, and normally renters want a 12 month lease. It's too much of a hassel.

will_work4tears 14y ago

If all utilities are included it is a bit more of a deal if you ask me. That and weekly cleaning and counting the living space as a hacker space (of which membership could cost you a hundred+ a month).

stephencanon 14y ago

$1,200/month goes a long way in the bay area, too, if you have any idea what you're doing at all. As a graduate student at Berkeley, I had my own room in an apartment with a roof deck and uninterrupted bay view for $400/mo on a month-to-month lease in a great neighborhood. This was 6 years ago, but the same guy was still subletting the same rooms for the same price, when last I spoke to him. When I moved to the peninsula to work at Apple, I had a small house with a yard and fruit trees in the nice part of Menlo Park on a month-to-month lease for $1000/mo. This was 4 years ago, but similar deals can definitely still be found (the same house was rented for $1300/mo recently). Up to a year ago, my wife and I shared a lovely house with 1.5 acres in Palo Alto for $1800/mo, though we did need to sign a lease for that one. When I travel back to the bay area now, I get an airbnb-type room in Palo Alto, and don't typically pay more than $800/mo short-term. A lot of things are listed at higher rates, but you can often negotiate pretty successfully. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask. The ridiculous rents that you hear about in the bay area are partially due to a genuine real estate crunch, but they are largely also due to people having too much money and not enough sense. Paying $1200/mo for a dorm is nuts, no matter what city it's in.

hkmurakami 14y ago
Absolutely. My friend was living in a studio on Hamilton Street in downtown Palo Alto for $1000/mo earlier this year. Additionally there are places in Sunnyvale that you can rent for a good deal which will let you shell out the $100/mo for access to Hacker Dojo which would only be a 15 minute drive away. Having lived in SV all my life, these "Hacker Hostels" just seem like a way for the operators to exploit those who flock to their services, who just don't know any better.
nirvana 14y ago
In fact, if someone is paying $1,200 a month for a dorm, then that tells you something about the kind of employee or co-founder they would be. No problem if they stay there for a couple weeks, up to a month, while getting situated or doing a bunch of meetings, but living there for months shows lack of judgement. You can get a hotel in Santa Clara- rack rate- for $50, and a nice one at that.