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the person just elected promised to rig every election Quote, please? I believe you're referring to what Trump said about in the future, New Yorkers won't hav

the person just elected promised to rig every election Quote, please? I believe you're referring to what Trump said about in the future, New Yorkers won't have to vote. That's not saying they won't be allowed to vote. It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Of course, whether those folks are right, or whether Trump really would do anything about it, are different questions. But in any case, it's nothing like the widely-reported statement that Trump will (somehow, through undescribed FUD) put an end to elections.

BadHumans 2y ago
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
- CWuestefeld 2y ago
  Thanks. So it was the statement I referred to, and as you'll see in my explanation above, this is nothing at all like saying that people won't be able to vote. Saying "you won't need to vote because things will be fixed" is absolutely nothing like saying "you won't be allowed to vote anymore".
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    No one is saying you won't be allowed to vote. Russia has elections and people vote. The election is just "fixed" so the votes don't matter. I also have no reason to give this a charitable interpretation but hey, I hope you're right. You aren't but I hope you are.
daveguy 2y ago
To be fair, it was probably the coup attempt last time that has people worried.
- CWuestefeld 2y ago
  I may be slaughtered here for saying so, but I can't see J6 as a "coup". There's too much of an underpants gnome quality, with no clear path leading from "unruly mob pushed its way into the Capitol" to "Trump is inaugurated with the acceptance of (at least a majority of) the country". It follows much more logically if we model it as an irrational rioting mob. This doesn't make it right, but it moves the suspicion from "subverting democracy" to (simply?) inciting a riot.
  - daveguy 2y ago
    It was an irrational rioting mob sent by Trump and allowed to continue for hours while he sat on his rear hoping they would be successful in forceably preventing the transfer of power. He and his co-conspirators knew exactly what they were doing. The insurrectionists that he told to stand back and stand by implemented stack formations to breach the capitol.
hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
>It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Why do folks think that now? Propaganda and lies from politicians. What would need to happen in order for them to NOT feel that way? The eradication of the Dems and the roughly half the voters that support them, and/or the further rigging of elections to ensure the half of Americans they disagree with are disenfranchised and/or the further entrenchment of the courts in an ideology only shared by half the country with mechanisms to prevent the 'left' from being able to take it back. To pretend that statement is anything but directly threatening the pillars of democracy is absurd. Even trumps own explanation shows the above to be true: >Trump: So with respect to like a statement like I made that statement is very simple. I said, vote for me. You're not going to have to do it ever again. It's true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group. They don't vote, and I'm explaining that to them: You never vote — this time, vote. I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Emphasis on: >I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Why wouldn't he need the vote. What changes could he make that would result in that outcome that are democratic?
- CWuestefeld 2y ago
  Why wouldn't he need the vote. Ummmm.... maybe the fact that he won't even be eligible to run again? I mean, he literally has no use at all for a vote beyond yesterday's.
  - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    Let me phrase that better, why wouldn't they need to vote, since that is what he implied. Why wouldn't they need to vote?
    - CWuestefeld 2y ago
      Why do you vote now? I guess one reason is just that it's your civic duty. But also, I think that a big reason for voting is defensive, to ensure that the other voters aren't screwing you first; or at least to make sure that your way of life isn't threatened. Isn't this exactly what "get out the vote" efforts are trying to do, convince potential voters that there's a threat that they need to address by casting their vote? So people vote for gay rights, or for self-defense rights, or for "pro choice" rights, etc. So if you've preemptively had some putative Defender Of The Faith like Trump memorialize your values in legislation, then you've got relatively less fear driving you to vote defensively.

BadHumans 2y ago

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/

CWuestefeld 2y ago
Thanks. So it was the statement I referred to, and as you'll see in my explanation above, this is nothing at all like saying that people won't be able to vote. Saying "you won't need to vote because things will be fixed" is absolutely nothing like saying "you won't be allowed to vote anymore".
- BadHumans 2y ago
  No one is saying you won't be allowed to vote. Russia has elections and people vote. The election is just "fixed" so the votes don't matter. I also have no reason to give this a charitable interpretation but hey, I hope you're right. You aren't but I hope you are.

daveguy 2y ago

To be fair, it was probably the coup attempt last time that has people worried.

CWuestefeld 2y ago
I may be slaughtered here for saying so, but I can't see J6 as a "coup". There's too much of an underpants gnome quality, with no clear path leading from "unruly mob pushed its way into the Capitol" to "Trump is inaugurated with the acceptance of (at least a majority of) the country". It follows much more logically if we model it as an irrational rioting mob. This doesn't make it right, but it moves the suspicion from "subverting democracy" to (simply?) inciting a riot.
- daveguy 2y ago
  It was an irrational rioting mob sent by Trump and allowed to continue for hours while he sat on his rear hoping they would be successful in forceably preventing the transfer of power. He and his co-conspirators knew exactly what they were doing. The insurrectionists that he told to stand back and stand by implemented stack formations to breach the capitol.

hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago

>It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Why do folks think that now? Propaganda and lies from politicians. What would need to happen in order for them to NOT feel that way? The eradication of the Dems and the roughly half the voters that support them, and/or the further rigging of elections to ensure the half of Americans they disagree with are disenfranchised and/or the further entrenchment of the courts in an ideology only shared by half the country with mechanisms to prevent the 'left' from being able to take it back. To pretend that statement is anything but directly threatening the pillars of democracy is absurd. Even trumps own explanation shows the above to be true: >Trump: So with respect to like a statement like I made that statement is very simple. I said, vote for me. You're not going to have to do it ever again. It's true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group. They don't vote, and I'm explaining that to them: You never vote — this time, vote. I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Emphasis on: >I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Why wouldn't he need the vote. What changes could he make that would result in that outcome that are democratic?

CWuestefeld 2y ago
Why wouldn't he need the vote. Ummmm.... maybe the fact that he won't even be eligible to run again? I mean, he literally has no use at all for a vote beyond yesterday's.
- hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
  Let me phrase that better, why wouldn't they need to vote, since that is what he implied. Why wouldn't they need to vote?
  - CWuestefeld 2y ago
    Why do you vote now? I guess one reason is just that it's your civic duty. But also, I think that a big reason for voting is defensive, to ensure that the other voters aren't screwing you first; or at least to make sure that your way of life isn't threatened. Isn't this exactly what "get out the vote" efforts are trying to do, convince potential voters that there's a threat that they need to address by casting their vote? So people vote for gay rights, or for self-defense rights, or for "pro choice" rights, etc. So if you've preemptively had some putative Defender Of The Faith like Trump memorialize your values in legislation, then you've got relatively less fear driving you to vote defensively.