7 ms·

Don't move to Canada; move to a swing state.

by Taikonerd 2y ago

BadHumans 2y ago
[flagged]
- CWuestefeld 2y ago
  the person just elected promised to rig every election Quote, please? I believe you're referring to what Trump said about in the future, New Yorkers won't have to vote. That's not saying they won't be allowed to vote. It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Of course, whether those folks are right, or whether Trump really would do anything about it, are different questions. But in any case, it's nothing like the widely-reported statement that Trump will (somehow, through undescribed FUD) put an end to elections.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
    - CWuestefeld 2y ago
      Thanks. So it was the statement I referred to, and as you'll see in my explanation above, this is nothing at all like saying that people won't be able to vote. Saying "you won't need to vote because things will be fixed" is absolutely nothing like saying "you won't be allowed to vote anymore".
      - BadHumans 2y ago
        No one is saying you won't be allowed to vote. Russia has elections and people vote. The election is just "fixed" so the votes don't matter. I also have no reason to give this a charitable interpretation but hey, I hope you're right. You aren't but I hope you are.
  - daveguy 2y ago
    To be fair, it was probably the coup attempt last time that has people worried.
    - CWuestefeld 2y ago
      I may be slaughtered here for saying so, but I can't see J6 as a "coup". There's too much of an underpants gnome quality, with no clear path leading from "unruly mob pushed its way into the Capitol" to "Trump is inaugurated with the acceptance of (at least a majority of) the country". It follows much more logically if we model it as an irrational rioting mob. This doesn't make it right, but it moves the suspicion from "subverting democracy" to (simply?) inciting a riot.
      - daveguy 2y ago
        It was an irrational rioting mob sent by Trump and allowed to continue for hours while he sat on his rear hoping they would be successful in forceably preventing the transfer of power. He and his co-conspirators knew exactly what they were doing. The insurrectionists that he told to stand back and stand by implemented stack formations to breach the capitol.
  - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    >It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Why do folks think that now? Propaganda and lies from politicians. What would need to happen in order for them to NOT feel that way? The eradication of the Dems and the roughly half the voters that support them, and/or the further rigging of elections to ensure the half of Americans they disagree with are disenfranchised and/or the further entrenchment of the courts in an ideology only shared by half the country with mechanisms to prevent the 'left' from being able to take it back. To pretend that statement is anything but directly threatening the pillars of democracy is absurd. Even trumps own explanation shows the above to be true: >Trump: So with respect to like a statement like I made that statement is very simple. I said, vote for me. You're not going to have to do it ever again. It's true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group. They don't vote, and I'm explaining that to them: You never vote — this time, vote. I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Emphasis on: >I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Why wouldn't he need the vote. What changes could he make that would result in that outcome that are democratic?
    - CWuestefeld 2y ago
      Why wouldn't he need the vote. Ummmm.... maybe the fact that he won't even be eligible to run again? I mean, he literally has no use at all for a vote beyond yesterday's.
      - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
        Let me phrase that better, why wouldn't they need to vote, since that is what he implied. Why wouldn't they need to vote?
        CWuestefeld 2y ago
        Why do you vote now? I guess one reason is just that it's your civic duty. But also, I think that a big reason for voting is defensive, to ensure that the other voters aren't screwing you first; or at least to make sure that your way of life isn't threatened. Isn't this exactly what "get out the vote" efforts are trying to do, convince potential voters that there's a threat that they need to address by casting their vote? So people vote for gay rights, or for self-defense rights, or for "pro choice" rights, etc. So if you've preemptively had some putative Defender Of The Faith like Trump memorialize your values in legislation, then you've got relatively less fear driving you to vote defensively.
- eric_cc 2y ago
  You’ve been lied to.
jimbob45 2y ago
There's an interesting heatmap to be made of how recently each state was considered a swing state. Anyone remember 2004 Iowa?
toomuchtodo 2y ago
As an expat, you can vote as a resident in the last state you claimed residency before leaving the country. So, if you're headed out for a bit, establish residency in a swing state before you go, and remember to vote while you're out of country. https://www.overseasvotefoundation.org/content/what-state-do-i-vote-if-i-live-abroad https://www.overseasvotefoundation.org/content/what-state-do...
- agubelu 2y ago
  It's quite funny how people talk about "immigrants", but when they are themselves the ones living in another country, then they are "expats".
  - edanm 2y ago
    But in this case they're talking about rights in your origin country, so "expat" is the only term that makes sense.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170119-who-should-be-called-an-expat https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170119-who-should-be-... > The difference between an expat and an immigrant? Semantics > “Immigrants are usually defined as people who have come to a different country in order to live there permanently, whereas expats move abroad for a limited amount of time or have not yet decided upon the length of their stay,” he says.
    - TomK32 2y ago
      Migrants then because Trump told you it's the last time you have to vote.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Trump says lots of things. Too early to tell imho if the authoritarianism and populism is going to stick. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-fa... > Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years
lolinder 2y ago
Trump won the popular vote this time. The swing states were still where all the action was, but I hope this spells the end of the Democratic Party blaming the electoral college for their losses. This time, they just screwed this race up badly.
- tharmas 2y ago
  The leadership of the DNC should be purged. They are clueless idiots.
  - labster 2y ago
    Don’t worry, the purges will begin soon enough.
    - kwere 2y ago
      they will purge the token hires to show a return to "normalcy" and thats it. Young grassroot talents will be ignored or marginalized as always. DNC is such a small club, even Gavin Newsom, the most "presentable" dem is an outsider. He left out some snarky remarks on how "the machine" works on pod save america podcast.
      - labster 2y ago
        No, the purges will take out the entire senior leadership of the Democratic Party. You need to stop thinking like it’s 2020 and start thinking like it’s 1932.
        kwere 2y ago
        1932 was in 2016 and DNC did nothing
  - umeshunni 2y ago
    Most of them are geriatric at this point and will naturally be purged.
easterncalculus 2y ago
Lib migration really hasn't worked out well for Democrats. Texas is their white whale and a big reason they haven't won it is because they just change to another version of their same bubble and bring center-right people with them.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dkarl 2y ago
I live in a pretty red state, but there are only 9 or 10 states swingier than mine. Progressives I know are moving to solid blue states and feeling virtuous about it. Two of my friends moved to the west coast, and I can tell they're looking at me like if I can stand to live here, I must not feel as strongly about politics as they do. This despite the fact that we're all old, white, and economically privileged enough that we're for all practical purposes immune to the awful policies that are being put in place. The sad thing is, the idea that moving away is a constructive political act comes straight from Atlas Shrugged. It's right wing logic. Express your consumer preference, and through the magic of the invisible hand, that becomes political power. Making yourself happy is the only form of political engagement you need.
- tessierashpool 2y ago
  we're for all practical purposes immune to the awful policies that are being put in place. this is probably not going to pan out. Trump's become the figurehead for an organized and motivated movement to completely dismantle the administrative state. nobody's going to be immune to the effects of that. Project 2025 includes shutting down the weather service, even to the point of privatizing tornado warnings. he's also talked many times about replacing the entire income tax system with hefty tariffs, which literally hundreds of economists say would be a disastrous move. they're also talking about a national abortion ban. you might indeed be old enough for that not to affect your life any more, but if you have extended family, it will affect someone you care about, guaranteed. last but not least, Trump's stated goal of mass deportation would require intense surveillance, broad leeway for law enforcement agencies, and drastically reduced civil liberties protections. once you've got that, you can target a lot of people. a site like Twitter is going to have a lot of data about political inclinations, and cultural factors like sexuality or race that can get you targeted politically. the real problem that got Trump in office was normalcy bias. what we're dealing with is so bad that if you tell people who don't already know, they assume you're exaggerating.
  - maxehmookau 2y ago
    > the real problem that got Trump in office was normalcy bias. what we're dealing with is so bad that if you tell people who don't already know, they assume you're exaggerating. This is understated IMO. In almost every other democracy in the world, 1% of the mess that comes out of Trump's mouth would deem him utterly unelectable on account of how crazy he sounds. The US seems to lap it up though.
itsoktocry 2y ago
>Don't move to Canada; move to a swing state. Who, exactly, are you targeting with this message? You realize you are in the minority, right?
- Taikonerd 2y ago
  I'm speaking to the roughly 49% of Americans (and ??% of HN readers) who are unhappy with the outcome. And if that's not you, that's OK; just keep scrolling.
- sophacles 2y ago
  How did you determine this? Less than 50% of the population voted.
- doubleyou 2y ago
  Less than 1/3 of eligible voters voted for trump https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/10-things-to-know-2024-presidential-election/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/10-things-to-know-202...
moralestapia 2y ago
[flagged]

Don't move to Canada; move to a swing state.

BadHumans 2y ago

[flagged]

CWuestefeld 2y ago
the person just elected promised to rig every election Quote, please? I believe you're referring to what Trump said about in the future, New Yorkers won't have to vote. That's not saying they won't be allowed to vote. It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Of course, whether those folks are right, or whether Trump really would do anything about it, are different questions. But in any case, it's nothing like the widely-reported statement that Trump will (somehow, through undescribed FUD) put an end to elections.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
  - CWuestefeld 2y ago
    Thanks. So it was the statement I referred to, and as you'll see in my explanation above, this is nothing at all like saying that people won't be able to vote. Saying "you won't need to vote because things will be fixed" is absolutely nothing like saying "you won't be allowed to vote anymore".
    - BadHumans 2y ago
      No one is saying you won't be allowed to vote. Russia has elections and people vote. The election is just "fixed" so the votes don't matter. I also have no reason to give this a charitable interpretation but hey, I hope you're right. You aren't but I hope you are.
- daveguy 2y ago
  To be fair, it was probably the coup attempt last time that has people worried.
  - CWuestefeld 2y ago
    I may be slaughtered here for saying so, but I can't see J6 as a "coup". There's too much of an underpants gnome quality, with no clear path leading from "unruly mob pushed its way into the Capitol" to "Trump is inaugurated with the acceptance of (at least a majority of) the country". It follows much more logically if we model it as an irrational rioting mob. This doesn't make it right, but it moves the suspicion from "subverting democracy" to (simply?) inciting a riot.
    - daveguy 2y ago
      It was an irrational rioting mob sent by Trump and allowed to continue for hours while he sat on his rear hoping they would be successful in forceably preventing the transfer of power. He and his co-conspirators knew exactly what they were doing. The insurrectionists that he told to stand back and stand by implemented stack formations to breach the capitol.
- hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
  >It's saying that the folks who think they need to vote to defend their way of life won't feel that way anymore. Why do folks think that now? Propaganda and lies from politicians. What would need to happen in order for them to NOT feel that way? The eradication of the Dems and the roughly half the voters that support them, and/or the further rigging of elections to ensure the half of Americans they disagree with are disenfranchised and/or the further entrenchment of the courts in an ideology only shared by half the country with mechanisms to prevent the 'left' from being able to take it back. To pretend that statement is anything but directly threatening the pillars of democracy is absurd. Even trumps own explanation shows the above to be true: >Trump: So with respect to like a statement like I made that statement is very simple. I said, vote for me. You're not going to have to do it ever again. It's true, because we have to get the vote out. Christians are not known as a big voting group. They don't vote, and I'm explaining that to them: You never vote — this time, vote. I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Emphasis on: >I'll straighten out the country. You won't have to vote anymore. I won't need your vote. You can go back. Why wouldn't he need the vote. What changes could he make that would result in that outcome that are democratic?
  - CWuestefeld 2y ago
    Why wouldn't he need the vote. Ummmm.... maybe the fact that he won't even be eligible to run again? I mean, he literally has no use at all for a vote beyond yesterday's.
    - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
      Let me phrase that better, why wouldn't they need to vote, since that is what he implied. Why wouldn't they need to vote?
      - CWuestefeld 2y ago
        Why do you vote now? I guess one reason is just that it's your civic duty. But also, I think that a big reason for voting is defensive, to ensure that the other voters aren't screwing you first; or at least to make sure that your way of life isn't threatened. Isn't this exactly what "get out the vote" efforts are trying to do, convince potential voters that there's a threat that they need to address by casting their vote? So people vote for gay rights, or for self-defense rights, or for "pro choice" rights, etc. So if you've preemptively had some putative Defender Of The Faith like Trump memorialize your values in legislation, then you've got relatively less fear driving you to vote defensively.
eric_cc 2y ago
You’ve been lied to.

jimbob45 2y ago

There's an interesting heatmap to be made of how recently each state was considered a swing state. Anyone remember 2004 Iowa?

toomuchtodo 2y ago

As an expat, you can vote as a resident in the last state you claimed residency before leaving the country. So, if you're headed out for a bit, establish residency in a swing state before you go, and remember to vote while you're out of country. https://www.overseasvotefoundation.org/content/what-state-do-i-vote-if-i-live-abroad https://www.overseasvotefoundation.org/content/what-state-do...

agubelu 2y ago
It's quite funny how people talk about "immigrants", but when they are themselves the ones living in another country, then they are "expats".
- edanm 2y ago
  But in this case they're talking about rights in your origin country, so "expat" is the only term that makes sense.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170119-who-should-be-called-an-expat https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170119-who-should-be-... > The difference between an expat and an immigrant? Semantics > “Immigrants are usually defined as people who have come to a different country in order to live there permanently, whereas expats move abroad for a limited amount of time or have not yet decided upon the length of their stay,” he says.
  - TomK32 2y ago
    Migrants then because Trump told you it's the last time you have to vote.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Trump says lots of things. Too early to tell imho if the authoritarianism and populism is going to stick. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-fa... > Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years

lolinder 2y ago

Trump won the popular vote this time. The swing states were still where all the action was, but I hope this spells the end of the Democratic Party blaming the electoral college for their losses. This time, they just screwed this race up badly.

tharmas 2y ago
The leadership of the DNC should be purged. They are clueless idiots.
- labster 2y ago
  Don’t worry, the purges will begin soon enough.
  - kwere 2y ago
    they will purge the token hires to show a return to "normalcy" and thats it. Young grassroot talents will be ignored or marginalized as always. DNC is such a small club, even Gavin Newsom, the most "presentable" dem is an outsider. He left out some snarky remarks on how "the machine" works on pod save america podcast.
    - labster 2y ago
      No, the purges will take out the entire senior leadership of the Democratic Party. You need to stop thinking like it’s 2020 and start thinking like it’s 1932.
      - kwere 2y ago
        1932 was in 2016 and DNC did nothing
- umeshunni 2y ago
  Most of them are geriatric at this point and will naturally be purged.

easterncalculus 2y ago

Lib migration really hasn't worked out well for Democrats. Texas is their white whale and a big reason they haven't won it is because they just change to another version of their same bubble and bring center-right people with them.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dkarl 2y ago

I live in a pretty red state, but there are only 9 or 10 states swingier than mine. Progressives I know are moving to solid blue states and feeling virtuous about it. Two of my friends moved to the west coast, and I can tell they're looking at me like if I can stand to live here, I must not feel as strongly about politics as they do. This despite the fact that we're all old, white, and economically privileged enough that we're for all practical purposes immune to the awful policies that are being put in place. The sad thing is, the idea that moving away is a constructive political act comes straight from Atlas Shrugged. It's right wing logic. Express your consumer preference, and through the magic of the invisible hand, that becomes political power. Making yourself happy is the only form of political engagement you need.

tessierashpool 2y ago
we're for all practical purposes immune to the awful policies that are being put in place. this is probably not going to pan out. Trump's become the figurehead for an organized and motivated movement to completely dismantle the administrative state. nobody's going to be immune to the effects of that. Project 2025 includes shutting down the weather service, even to the point of privatizing tornado warnings. he's also talked many times about replacing the entire income tax system with hefty tariffs, which literally hundreds of economists say would be a disastrous move. they're also talking about a national abortion ban. you might indeed be old enough for that not to affect your life any more, but if you have extended family, it will affect someone you care about, guaranteed. last but not least, Trump's stated goal of mass deportation would require intense surveillance, broad leeway for law enforcement agencies, and drastically reduced civil liberties protections. once you've got that, you can target a lot of people. a site like Twitter is going to have a lot of data about political inclinations, and cultural factors like sexuality or race that can get you targeted politically. the real problem that got Trump in office was normalcy bias. what we're dealing with is so bad that if you tell people who don't already know, they assume you're exaggerating.
- maxehmookau 2y ago
  > the real problem that got Trump in office was normalcy bias. what we're dealing with is so bad that if you tell people who don't already know, they assume you're exaggerating. This is understated IMO. In almost every other democracy in the world, 1% of the mess that comes out of Trump's mouth would deem him utterly unelectable on account of how crazy he sounds. The US seems to lap it up though.

itsoktocry 2y ago

>Don't move to Canada; move to a swing state. Who, exactly, are you targeting with this message? You realize you are in the minority, right?

Taikonerd 2y ago
I'm speaking to the roughly 49% of Americans (and ??% of HN readers) who are unhappy with the outcome. And if that's not you, that's OK; just keep scrolling.
sophacles 2y ago
How did you determine this? Less than 50% of the population voted.
doubleyou 2y ago
Less than 1/3 of eligible voters voted for trump https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/10-things-to-know-2024-presidential-election/ https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/10-things-to-know-202...

moralestapia 2y ago

[flagged]