6 ms·

Thanks for the genuine interest :) 1. Don't want war with Russia. Trump's presidency was relatively low-war. He's also expressed a great desire to end the Ukra

Thanks for the genuine interest :) 1. Don't want war with Russia. Trump's presidency was relatively low-war. He's also expressed a great desire to end the Ukraine conflict. If the Donbas and Crimea is the price of avoiding Nuclear war, I'm on board. The moment that switched me to deciding on Trump was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala. 2. Protecting kids. I don't think kids can consent to medical gender transition. It amounts to state sanctioned child abuse. I have kids. Once you're 18 go ahead do what you want. 3. Illegal immigration. I lived in South America for 4 years. My wife is Colombian, we just moved back to the States. Legally. It was a long and arduous process to come in legally. That should be made easier (something Musk at least has espoused) and coming in illegally should be made harder. I know quite a few illegal immigrants and they are being abused by the urban elite to build their summer homes. They're not living a better life and they're stuck here. 4. Federal bureaucracy. The federal bureaucracy has become a parasite on our progress. Just look at what's happening with SpaceX. This ties in with the immigration thing. The problems we have with immigration are actually that the lazy and corrupt bureaucracy takes years to process something that should take 2 hours. (and does! even in "third world" countries like Colombia) 5. Trust. Everyone who hates Trump likes to talk about how much he makes stuff up. But he's authentic. Meaning he rarely reads from a script. He talks off the cuff. He's not controlled. I'm tired of having politicians that basically hate half the country and think we're dumb because we don't like to listen to their corpo-bureaucrat speeches

palata 2y ago
> The moment that switched me to deciding on Trump was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala Point 1: you're irrational. Good to know. > 2. Protecting kids. I don't think kids can consent to medical gender transition. It amounts to state sanctioned child abuse. I have kids. Once you're 18 go ahead do what you want. Sounds like an excuse you make because you don't like the concept. Are you against all kind of medical interventions on kids, or only the ones you don't feel comfortable with? Do you tell kids with cancer to wait until they are 18 before they take their own decision? > I'm tired of having politicians that basically hate half the country and think we're dumb because we don't like to listen to their corpo-bureaucrat speeches And instead you vote for a politician who ignores all the country and cares only about himself.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  Dick Cheney is responsible for murdering millions of Iraqis. This was indisputable up until the moment he endorsed Kamala. Gender dysphoria is not the same as cancer. We don't let kids get tattoos, buy a beer, have sex, get married until a certain age, but somehow we let them medically transition at 6 years old? Have you ever met a 6 year old? And yes it's happening at that age at alarming rates [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran...
  - palata 2y ago
    > Dick Cheney is responsible for I am pretty sure that many bad people voted for Trump. It wouldn't be rational to vote for Harris just because one particular person endorsed Trump. I don't actually think you're irrational, just wanted to note that you apparently felt like you needed an excuse to justify your voting for Trump. > We don't let kids get tattoos, buy a beer, have sex, get married until a certain age, but somehow we let them medically transition at 6 years old? You specifically said "18 years old". And now that it is convenient for you, you bring that limit down to 6 years old? In many countries in the world it's perfectly normal to get tattoos, buy beers and have sex before 18 years old.
    - cynicalpeace 2y ago
      6 is less than 18? And I said a "certain age". Nobody thinks 6 year olds should be able to do whatever they want? My solace is I know yours is a fringe position. Though increasingly less so.
      - palata 2y ago
        > My solace is I know yours is a fringe position. I don't actually have an opinion on the subject in general (it's not a question where I vote). I just disagreed with what you wrote. Let me quote it again and explain: > 2. Protecting kids. I don't think kids can consent to medical gender transition. It amounts to state sanctioned child abuse. I have kids. Once you're 18 go ahead do what you want. You say here that medical gender transition should be forbidden before 18, don't you? It includes 6, but it also includes 17. When I said I disagreed with you, you said "how can you imagine doing that to a 6 years old kid?". You came up with that number all on your own. I was answering to your comment that implied "anything below 18".
jdthedisciple 2y ago
Very well summarised. If only KH voters had been able to formulate their own top 5 reasons (excluding "because the other guy is Trump") for voting her in a similar, eloquent yet succinct manner.
steve_adams_86 2y ago
1. Don't want war with Russia. I understand that. I wouldn't want that either. Simultaneously, I'm terrified for what the implications are for Ukrainian people. I also worry what this will mean in 10 years if Russia is emboldened once again to push West. Taking Crimea was too easy, and while Ukraine might be a huge and expensive undertaking, the rewards are enormous. I worry it will leave leadership with the notion that they can in fact invade and take countries, or part of them, without catastrophic consequences. Trump doesn't care about this... But what if he should? 2. Protecting kids. This one is delicate, but I appreciate the sentiment. I tend to feel as though the most dangerous threats to our children are ever-present and most often closer to our homes than to political offices, but as a parent, I can't argue with the need to take children's health and well-being seriously and approach their care with rigorous, evidence-based care. Though I'm very much in favour of allowing people to choose how they'd like to identify (even if that means altering their hormones and physiology), I'm not convinced that this should occur before or during puberty. For what it's worth, the data I've seen suggests that these treatment protocols and procedures are actually quite rare. 3. Illegal immigration. This part confuses me because a democrat was responsible for the most deportations in history (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-nu...). The party is capable of it. The rhetoric was that they're soft on it, but the data suggests otherwise. I agree it needs to stop, though. Immigrants are necessary and their labour enriches the country. Same with Canada. The key is having it be safe, legal, and well-documented. I worry a lot about the proposed deportations. That would be awful for the deported people most of all, but even for Americans. I don't see how it can be accomplished logistically, both in terms of executing on the deportations and filling enormous labour gaps. 4. Federal bureaucracy. This is a problem here, too. The trick is eliminating it where it isn't helpful, because sometimes it really does help. Lately I wish we had governments which competed internally by trying to solve the same problems multiple ways, then selecting the solutions which work best. You'd get the right levels of bureaucracy I think, or at least better levels. What we need is to ensure we serve people efficiently without causing undue harm or external problems. I think this requires constant review and critique, which isn't possible without some degree of internal competition. I worry that Trump is a "throw the baby out with the bath water" type of politician in this regard. I hope I'm wrong. Rules tend to exist for good reason, even if they may have been implemented poorly. Take safety at work for example. Each rule is there because someone (one or many) was injured or died that way, and that rule or guideline didn't exist at the time. It may seem inconvenient at the time but it's a hell of a lot better than your work buddy getting crushed because no one did a safety check on the forklift that morning. 5. Trust. Everyone who hates Trump likes to talk about how much he makes stuff up. But he's authentic. ... He's not controlled I've got my tin foil hat on, but I have serious suspicions about Trump's trustworthiness and whether or not he's controlled. I know people harp on the whole "convicted felon" thing. Frankly I don't care if someone is a felon. They should be able to vote, run for office, whatever. I've known and seen enough convicted felons throughout my life who weren't bad people to know that this title doesn't mean a specific thing about people other than that they were charged with committing a certain type of crime. Yet Trump was convicted for his dishonesty. Not just dishonesty, but layers upon layers of it. And he lied without hesitation, shame, or remorse. It was premeditated, intentional, and purposefully hidden for a long time. He doesn't strike me as someone I can trust in the slightest. He may say what he wants to say, but he doesn't do so from a place of authenticity and trust in my opinion. So, I point to him being a convicted felon only because contextually it seems quite important. Overall I get where you're coming from. The bottom line is that the democrats were offering a totally lacklustre platform. You cannot campaign based on "orange man is bad". You need real substance. No one is moved by more of the same, not being the bogey man, etc. They did an astoundingly bad job at capturing anyone's imagination or hopes or desires. Remember how Obama's campaign managed to unify a bit? That's arguably what they needed to win this time around. I don't think Kamala Harris would have been a bad pick, but I get why she didn't inspire many people. I really do. Thanks for the answers. This stuff is very helpful. I hope it doesn't seem like I was trying to tear your answers apart at all. They're all totally valid, and proof that the notion that Trump voters don't think about things is nonsense. I think people tell themselves this because they 1. live in bubbles 2. lack imagination and 3. lack a lot of compassion for their country mates. I think this goes both ways on the political spectrum, but it somewhat ironic on the blue side. The democrats need a radical shift in how they understand and care about the people who supported Trump. It's so strange because in my lifetime, they offered a platform that I think would have captured those same voters. And I think the party was objectively better back then. They've fallen pretty far, clearly. Canada has similar parties, insanely disconnected from the people they once resonated with. Things are going to shake up here too, I think.

palata 2y ago

> The moment that switched me to deciding on Trump was when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala Point 1: you're irrational. Good to know. > 2. Protecting kids. I don't think kids can consent to medical gender transition. It amounts to state sanctioned child abuse. I have kids. Once you're 18 go ahead do what you want. Sounds like an excuse you make because you don't like the concept. Are you against all kind of medical interventions on kids, or only the ones you don't feel comfortable with? Do you tell kids with cancer to wait until they are 18 before they take their own decision? > I'm tired of having politicians that basically hate half the country and think we're dumb because we don't like to listen to their corpo-bureaucrat speeches And instead you vote for a politician who ignores all the country and cares only about himself.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
Dick Cheney is responsible for murdering millions of Iraqis. This was indisputable up until the moment he endorsed Kamala. Gender dysphoria is not the same as cancer. We don't let kids get tattoos, buy a beer, have sex, get married until a certain age, but somehow we let them medically transition at 6 years old? Have you ever met a 6 year old? And yes it's happening at that age at alarming rates [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran...
- palata 2y ago
  > Dick Cheney is responsible for I am pretty sure that many bad people voted for Trump. It wouldn't be rational to vote for Harris just because one particular person endorsed Trump. I don't actually think you're irrational, just wanted to note that you apparently felt like you needed an excuse to justify your voting for Trump. > We don't let kids get tattoos, buy a beer, have sex, get married until a certain age, but somehow we let them medically transition at 6 years old? You specifically said "18 years old". And now that it is convenient for you, you bring that limit down to 6 years old? In many countries in the world it's perfectly normal to get tattoos, buy beers and have sex before 18 years old.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    6 is less than 18? And I said a "certain age". Nobody thinks 6 year olds should be able to do whatever they want? My solace is I know yours is a fringe position. Though increasingly less so.
    - palata 2y ago
      > My solace is I know yours is a fringe position. I don't actually have an opinion on the subject in general (it's not a question where I vote). I just disagreed with what you wrote. Let me quote it again and explain: > 2. Protecting kids. I don't think kids can consent to medical gender transition. It amounts to state sanctioned child abuse. I have kids. Once you're 18 go ahead do what you want. You say here that medical gender transition should be forbidden before 18, don't you? It includes 6, but it also includes 17. When I said I disagreed with you, you said "how can you imagine doing that to a 6 years old kid?". You came up with that number all on your own. I was answering to your comment that implied "anything below 18".

jdthedisciple 2y ago

Very well summarised. If only KH voters had been able to formulate their own top 5 reasons (excluding "because the other guy is Trump") for voting her in a similar, eloquent yet succinct manner.

steve_adams_86 2y ago

1. Don't want war with Russia. I understand that. I wouldn't want that either. Simultaneously, I'm terrified for what the implications are for Ukrainian people. I also worry what this will mean in 10 years if Russia is emboldened once again to push West. Taking Crimea was too easy, and while Ukraine might be a huge and expensive undertaking, the rewards are enormous. I worry it will leave leadership with the notion that they can in fact invade and take countries, or part of them, without catastrophic consequences. Trump doesn't care about this... But what if he should? 2. Protecting kids. This one is delicate, but I appreciate the sentiment. I tend to feel as though the most dangerous threats to our children are ever-present and most often closer to our homes than to political offices, but as a parent, I can't argue with the need to take children's health and well-being seriously and approach their care with rigorous, evidence-based care. Though I'm very much in favour of allowing people to choose how they'd like to identify (even if that means altering their hormones and physiology), I'm not convinced that this should occur before or during puberty. For what it's worth, the data I've seen suggests that these treatment protocols and procedures are actually quite rare. 3. Illegal immigration. This part confuses me because a democrat was responsible for the most deportations in history (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-nu...). The party is capable of it. The rhetoric was that they're soft on it, but the data suggests otherwise. I agree it needs to stop, though. Immigrants are necessary and their labour enriches the country. Same with Canada. The key is having it be safe, legal, and well-documented. I worry a lot about the proposed deportations. That would be awful for the deported people most of all, but even for Americans. I don't see how it can be accomplished logistically, both in terms of executing on the deportations and filling enormous labour gaps. 4. Federal bureaucracy. This is a problem here, too. The trick is eliminating it where it isn't helpful, because sometimes it really does help. Lately I wish we had governments which competed internally by trying to solve the same problems multiple ways, then selecting the solutions which work best. You'd get the right levels of bureaucracy I think, or at least better levels. What we need is to ensure we serve people efficiently without causing undue harm or external problems. I think this requires constant review and critique, which isn't possible without some degree of internal competition. I worry that Trump is a "throw the baby out with the bath water" type of politician in this regard. I hope I'm wrong. Rules tend to exist for good reason, even if they may have been implemented poorly. Take safety at work for example. Each rule is there because someone (one or many) was injured or died that way, and that rule or guideline didn't exist at the time. It may seem inconvenient at the time but it's a hell of a lot better than your work buddy getting crushed because no one did a safety check on the forklift that morning. 5. Trust. Everyone who hates Trump likes to talk about how much he makes stuff up. But he's authentic. ... He's not controlled I've got my tin foil hat on, but I have serious suspicions about Trump's trustworthiness and whether or not he's controlled. I know people harp on the whole "convicted felon" thing. Frankly I don't care if someone is a felon. They should be able to vote, run for office, whatever. I've known and seen enough convicted felons throughout my life who weren't bad people to know that this title doesn't mean a specific thing about people other than that they were charged with committing a certain type of crime. Yet Trump was convicted for his dishonesty. Not just dishonesty, but layers upon layers of it. And he lied without hesitation, shame, or remorse. It was premeditated, intentional, and purposefully hidden for a long time. He doesn't strike me as someone I can trust in the slightest. He may say what he wants to say, but he doesn't do so from a place of authenticity and trust in my opinion. So, I point to him being a convicted felon only because contextually it seems quite important. Overall I get where you're coming from. The bottom line is that the democrats were offering a totally lacklustre platform. You cannot campaign based on "orange man is bad". You need real substance. No one is moved by more of the same, not being the bogey man, etc. They did an astoundingly bad job at capturing anyone's imagination or hopes or desires. Remember how Obama's campaign managed to unify a bit? That's arguably what they needed to win this time around. I don't think Kamala Harris would have been a bad pick, but I get why she didn't inspire many people. I really do. Thanks for the answers. This stuff is very helpful. I hope it doesn't seem like I was trying to tear your answers apart at all. They're all totally valid, and proof that the notion that Trump voters don't think about things is nonsense. I think people tell themselves this because they 1. live in bubbles 2. lack imagination and 3. lack a lot of compassion for their country mates. I think this goes both ways on the political spectrum, but it somewhat ironic on the blue side. The democrats need a radical shift in how they understand and care about the people who supported Trump. It's so strange because in my lifetime, they offered a platform that I think would have captured those same voters. And I think the party was objectively better back then. They've fallen pretty far, clearly. Canada has similar parties, insanely disconnected from the people they once resonated with. Things are going to shake up here too, I think.