3 ms·

no, but I am using my index fund on s&p 500 to buy goods and services

Retric 2y ago
Dividends provide a real income stream people live off of, bitcoins need buyers. It’s the difference between owning a farm and a gold bar.
- mrighele 2y ago
  There are plenty of companies whose stock is sought after but that never paid dividends (I think Tesla and Amazon are some example, or used to be at least)
  - onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
    They return cash to shareholders in the form of buybacks.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - Retric 2y ago
    Never have isn’t never will, dividends and buybacks are a sign the company doesn’t have use for the money. Meta and Google both eventually started paying dividends because they’re essentially tapped out of internal investment ideas. Telsa and Amazon on the other hand believe they have something meaningful to do with the money. But eventually successful companies just don’t have anything useful to do with their giant piles of cash.
  - tfehring 2y ago
    It’s not really about dividends. If you buy a share of Amazon stock, you’re getting a cut of the value that a million+ people are producing every day by writing code or moving stuff around. The value most workers create for their employers’ shareholders is much bigger than their rent check, and capturing that value is even easier than being a landlord. Dividends are just moving money from one pocket to the other, the value created by people’s work is where the returns come from. Financial returns without value creation are an anomaly, though not necessarily a rare or short-lived one.
  - lottin 2y ago
    Dividends don't matter. What matters is profits (regardless of whether they're distributed to shareholders or not).
pg5 2y ago
People in retirement certainly are
- timcavel 2y ago
  [dead]
Salgat 2y ago
The difference is that owning bitcoin doesn't give you partial control over the world's largest companies.
- kragen 2y ago
  Another difference is that you aren't arbitrarily excluded from being able to buy Bitcoin based on where you're born.
  - Thorrez 2y ago
    Bitcoin itself won't exclude you. But depending on where you are, buying Bitcoin might be illegal.
    - kragen 2y ago
      Oh, definitely. Those are, generally speaking, the places where it's most important that you can do so: the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Afghanistan, Egypt, Bangladesh, etc. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_country_or_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_.... But it's legal in almost all of the world, and fairly easy, while opening an account with a NASDAQ-listed broker is near impossible for most people.
- JackSlateur 2y ago
  Because you think you have any power over microsoft, with one action ? Unless you have a majority of the company, you are worthless.
  - dowager_dan99 2y ago
    Even in the literal sense of "owning" you don't need a majority, but yes - one share does have fractional power. I voted my 1000/<a very big number> just recently.
  - Salgat 2y ago
    If a person or company wants to acquire controlling shares, they absolutely will need to buy up countless millions of shares to make that happen.
fragmede 2y ago
I'm pretty sure you're not. Or at least, my grocery stores and the IRS/tax people take dollars, not SP500 or QQQ. If yours does I'd live to hear how that works (and where you are). If you're referring to investing $1,000, having it be worth $1,500, and then selling off $300 to pay for groceries, which a Coinbase/whatever account would let you do with Bitcoin while it appreciates.
- dowager_dan99 2y ago
  the entire ETF industry is based on either spending the distributions or reinvesting them, depending on which side of the curve your age lands on, so it's pretty much spending the index.
- munksbeer 2y ago
  If there is someone who wants to start a dog walking service, but they don't have the capital to do so, I can lend them the money with a promise from them to pay me a share of any revenue. My money goes to create a service that real people get benefit from (their dogs are walked) and they pay for that service with a medium of exchange that represents their own labour (fiat money). I get something in return for my capital, and the world gets a valuable service. Bitcoin does not offer that. The only return it offers is the hope that tomorrow some other people will pay me more to take my bitcoin, in the hope that some other people will pay them more the day after to take the bitcoin, with the hope that .... you get it.
  - npoc 2y ago
    It's not hope. It's knowledge. In a few decades or even maybe a century, your loan to the dog walker will be denominated in bitcoin.

Dividends provide a real income stream people live off of, bitcoins need buyers. It’s the difference between owning a farm and a gold bar.

mrighele 2y ago
There are plenty of companies whose stock is sought after but that never paid dividends (I think Tesla and Amazon are some example, or used to be at least)
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
  They return cash to shareholders in the form of buybacks.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Retric 2y ago
  Never have isn’t never will, dividends and buybacks are a sign the company doesn’t have use for the money. Meta and Google both eventually started paying dividends because they’re essentially tapped out of internal investment ideas. Telsa and Amazon on the other hand believe they have something meaningful to do with the money. But eventually successful companies just don’t have anything useful to do with their giant piles of cash.
- tfehring 2y ago
  It’s not really about dividends. If you buy a share of Amazon stock, you’re getting a cut of the value that a million+ people are producing every day by writing code or moving stuff around. The value most workers create for their employers’ shareholders is much bigger than their rent check, and capturing that value is even easier than being a landlord. Dividends are just moving money from one pocket to the other, the value created by people’s work is where the returns come from. Financial returns without value creation are an anomaly, though not necessarily a rare or short-lived one.
- lottin 2y ago
  Dividends don't matter. What matters is profits (regardless of whether they're distributed to shareholders or not).

pg5 2y ago

People in retirement certainly are

timcavel 2y ago
[dead]

Salgat 2y ago

The difference is that owning bitcoin doesn't give you partial control over the world's largest companies.

kragen 2y ago
Another difference is that you aren't arbitrarily excluded from being able to buy Bitcoin based on where you're born.
- Thorrez 2y ago
  Bitcoin itself won't exclude you. But depending on where you are, buying Bitcoin might be illegal.
  - kragen 2y ago
    Oh, definitely. Those are, generally speaking, the places where it's most important that you can do so: the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Afghanistan, Egypt, Bangladesh, etc. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_country_or_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cryptocurrency_by_.... But it's legal in almost all of the world, and fairly easy, while opening an account with a NASDAQ-listed broker is near impossible for most people.
JackSlateur 2y ago
Because you think you have any power over microsoft, with one action ? Unless you have a majority of the company, you are worthless.
- dowager_dan99 2y ago
  Even in the literal sense of "owning" you don't need a majority, but yes - one share does have fractional power. I voted my 1000/<a very big number> just recently.
- Salgat 2y ago
  If a person or company wants to acquire controlling shares, they absolutely will need to buy up countless millions of shares to make that happen.

fragmede 2y ago

I'm pretty sure you're not. Or at least, my grocery stores and the IRS/tax people take dollars, not SP500 or QQQ. If yours does I'd live to hear how that works (and where you are). If you're referring to investing $1,000, having it be worth $1,500, and then selling off $300 to pay for groceries, which a Coinbase/whatever account would let you do with Bitcoin while it appreciates.

dowager_dan99 2y ago
the entire ETF industry is based on either spending the distributions or reinvesting them, depending on which side of the curve your age lands on, so it's pretty much spending the index.
munksbeer 2y ago
If there is someone who wants to start a dog walking service, but they don't have the capital to do so, I can lend them the money with a promise from them to pay me a share of any revenue. My money goes to create a service that real people get benefit from (their dogs are walked) and they pay for that service with a medium of exchange that represents their own labour (fiat money). I get something in return for my capital, and the world gets a valuable service. Bitcoin does not offer that. The only return it offers is the hope that tomorrow some other people will pay me more to take my bitcoin, in the hope that some other people will pay them more the day after to take the bitcoin, with the hope that .... you get it.
- npoc 2y ago
  It's not hope. It's knowledge. In a few decades or even maybe a century, your loan to the dog walker will be denominated in bitcoin.