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Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. I still don't know any use case for th

Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. I still don't know any use case for this other than speculation and people aren't even using it in the real world.

drumttocs8 2y ago
There are 2 use cases: 1. Speculation 2. Converting to a real fiat with enforceability, like USD
anonym29 2y ago
A little further down in the comments here, another user (EGreg) posted: >I thought Bitcoin and crypto is just fools gold, why get involved with blockchains and worst of all, proof of work? I offered a detailed response there that goes over the real-world use case for Bitcoin other than speculation.
ur-whale 2y ago
> Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Obligatory answers, take your pick: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg And there's of course, the famous yet mis-attributed Einstein quote about the definition of insanity.
eterpstra 2y ago
Don't buy bitcoin because it will crash... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vII3xWrXzwY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vII3xWrXzwY
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 2y ago
  Over its history more money has been pump into bitcoin than come out. This is an inherent from the way the system works because unlike stocks, bonds, property etc there’s zero inherent income generation from dividends, rent etc. Making it on average across all transactions past and future a bad investment as miners have real world expenses. The common argument is the current value makes up for this, but trying to actually liquidate that value would require new buyers. Eventually someone gets screwed, but hey the price might go up even more…
  - npoc 2y ago
    Many people won't ever sell their bitcoin - they will spend it (once Gresham's and Thier's laws have played out)
delichon 2y ago
The real use case is self defense against the arbitrary devaluation of fiat currency. As wildly imperfect as crypto is at that task, it's the best we have in a fungible, digital form. So pessimistic investors flee to it. The worst case for a crypto investor is for the dollar to be restored to a stable store of value. To outcompete crypto, just whip inflation.
- mianosm 2y ago
  How well do investors understand the underlying network of computers required to maintain the public ledger and the trust and integrity of the digital currency, though? Until nation-states fund and invest in the infrastructure, finding your confidence in cryptocurrency with little to no regulation is a massive risk.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
    > Until nation-states fund and invest in the infrastructure, finding your confidence in cryptocurrency with little to no regulation is a massive risk. There are many arguments against bitcoin, but I have a hard time investing in this one. A lot of the people investing in bitcoin are doing so specifically to hedge against nation-states. It is decentralized FOSS based on sound mathematics. If this was really a concern, wouldn't people be skeptical of TLS to access your bank? One of the most popular TLS algorithms was written largely by DJB (not a nation-state).
- _kidlike 2y ago
  exactly...
- andrewfurey2003 2y ago
  How likely do you think governments/central banks would keep away from inflating the currency they have complete control over, when its normally in their best interest to print currency?
Ekaros 2y ago
It is neither pyramid nor Ponzi. Bubble or mania probably. In pyramid money comes from recruits directly under, in ponzi central party pays out from new and old investors. Bitcoin is not either anymore than say Tesla or Nvidia...
- butokai 2y ago
  If one is to believe that there is no other usage for a Bitcoin besides having a digital ticket worth 60k+ USD, then those people selling those tickets would be organizing one of these schemes. In order for it not to be so, you need to believe in there being some other usage to a Bitcoin (indeed, there is more to your Nvidia stock than its counter value in USD).
  - onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
    The use is that they think the digital ticket will outperform the s&p 500 exponentially.
  - seadan83 2y ago
    > indeed, there is more to your Nvidia stock than its counter value in USD With large percentage ownership, I agree. Namely board positions and votes. Failing that though, honest question, what is the value other than speculation (and the belief that asset will yield a greater return than other assets, or will serve as a hedge, all of which really are speculations with no greater value other than the countert value in USD). Hence, could you expound on what those other values are? (In the common case of someone that owns less than 1M shares)
- sealeck 2y ago
  > Bitcoin is not either anymore than say Tesla or Nvidia... Except at least Tesla and NVIDIA are actually doing things that are kind of useful (crime and speculation don't count as useful applications).
throw_m239339 2y ago
If Tether is still there after all these years, BTC isn't going anywhere, and I used to be pretty skeptical of crypto currencies.
jonahbenton 2y ago
In all seriousness, recommend reading Broken Money by Lyn Alden. There are parts that go off the rails but the narrative about money-as-technology is solid and is very helpful for mental model purposes. There are ponzi schemes everywhere but the view that money is a societal technology, and BTC as a specific and "optimal" instance of that technology- for very precise definitions of optimal of course- is worth understanding, as the domain itself is very likely to grow under a Trump regime in the US, for better and worse. Cheers.
throw0101a 2y ago
> Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. Neither: it's just another commodity, like gold. And like gold it has psychological value but questionable use cases (gold's is mostly jewelry). But, like Beanie Babys or anything else (diamonds), it is "valuable" because people think it is valuable. People assign things to value things, like shiny and non-shiny rocks: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones and Bitcoin is no different: it's a digital rock.
game_the0ry 2y ago
Would be interested in hearing how you came to these conclusions, considering that none of your assertions have matched to reality as of yet. > Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Why would the price collapse? Seems like BTC is getting mainstream adoption wit BTC ETFs. Even BlackRock's CEO seems to be pro-BTC, [1] which only increase price + demand. > Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. Technically, every investing market is a ponzi scheme. > I still don't know any use case for this other than speculation and people aren't even using it in the real world. It has certainly found a use in the black market. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackrock-larry-fink-called-1-110000148.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackrock-larry-fink-called-1...
npoc 2y ago
In terms of significance, bitcoin ranks alongside the wheel, the printing-press and the internet. The use-case is to stop the wide-spread theft of your wealth, often (as in your case) without you realising, enabled by the fiat money printers around the world.

drumttocs8 2y ago

There are 2 use cases: 1. Speculation 2. Converting to a real fiat with enforceability, like USD

anonym29 2y ago

A little further down in the comments here, another user (EGreg) posted: >I thought Bitcoin and crypto is just fools gold, why get involved with blockchains and worst of all, proof of work? I offered a detailed response there that goes over the real-world use case for Bitcoin other than speculation.

ur-whale 2y ago

> Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Obligatory answers, take your pick: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg And there's of course, the famous yet mis-attributed Einstein quote about the definition of insanity.

eterpstra 2y ago

Don't buy bitcoin because it will crash... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vII3xWrXzwY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vII3xWrXzwY

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Retric 2y ago
Over its history more money has been pump into bitcoin than come out. This is an inherent from the way the system works because unlike stocks, bonds, property etc there’s zero inherent income generation from dividends, rent etc. Making it on average across all transactions past and future a bad investment as miners have real world expenses. The common argument is the current value makes up for this, but trying to actually liquidate that value would require new buyers. Eventually someone gets screwed, but hey the price might go up even more…
- npoc 2y ago
  Many people won't ever sell their bitcoin - they will spend it (once Gresham's and Thier's laws have played out)

delichon 2y ago

The real use case is self defense against the arbitrary devaluation of fiat currency. As wildly imperfect as crypto is at that task, it's the best we have in a fungible, digital form. So pessimistic investors flee to it. The worst case for a crypto investor is for the dollar to be restored to a stable store of value. To outcompete crypto, just whip inflation.

mianosm 2y ago
How well do investors understand the underlying network of computers required to maintain the public ledger and the trust and integrity of the digital currency, though? Until nation-states fund and invest in the infrastructure, finding your confidence in cryptocurrency with little to no regulation is a massive risk.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
  > Until nation-states fund and invest in the infrastructure, finding your confidence in cryptocurrency with little to no regulation is a massive risk. There are many arguments against bitcoin, but I have a hard time investing in this one. A lot of the people investing in bitcoin are doing so specifically to hedge against nation-states. It is decentralized FOSS based on sound mathematics. If this was really a concern, wouldn't people be skeptical of TLS to access your bank? One of the most popular TLS algorithms was written largely by DJB (not a nation-state).
_kidlike 2y ago
exactly...
andrewfurey2003 2y ago
How likely do you think governments/central banks would keep away from inflating the currency they have complete control over, when its normally in their best interest to print currency?

Ekaros 2y ago

It is neither pyramid nor Ponzi. Bubble or mania probably. In pyramid money comes from recruits directly under, in ponzi central party pays out from new and old investors. Bitcoin is not either anymore than say Tesla or Nvidia...

butokai 2y ago
If one is to believe that there is no other usage for a Bitcoin besides having a digital ticket worth 60k+ USD, then those people selling those tickets would be organizing one of these schemes. In order for it not to be so, you need to believe in there being some other usage to a Bitcoin (indeed, there is more to your Nvidia stock than its counter value in USD).
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
  The use is that they think the digital ticket will outperform the s&p 500 exponentially.
- seadan83 2y ago
  > indeed, there is more to your Nvidia stock than its counter value in USD With large percentage ownership, I agree. Namely board positions and votes. Failing that though, honest question, what is the value other than speculation (and the belief that asset will yield a greater return than other assets, or will serve as a hedge, all of which really are speculations with no greater value other than the countert value in USD). Hence, could you expound on what those other values are? (In the common case of someone that owns less than 1M shares)
sealeck 2y ago
> Bitcoin is not either anymore than say Tesla or Nvidia... Except at least Tesla and NVIDIA are actually doing things that are kind of useful (crime and speculation don't count as useful applications).

throw_m239339 2y ago

If Tether is still there after all these years, BTC isn't going anywhere, and I used to be pretty skeptical of crypto currencies.

jonahbenton 2y ago

In all seriousness, recommend reading Broken Money by Lyn Alden. There are parts that go off the rails but the narrative about money-as-technology is solid and is very helpful for mental model purposes. There are ponzi schemes everywhere but the view that money is a societal technology, and BTC as a specific and "optimal" instance of that technology- for very precise definitions of optimal of course- is worth understanding, as the domain itself is very likely to grow under a Trump regime in the US, for better and worse. Cheers.

throw0101a 2y ago

> Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. Neither: it's just another commodity, like gold. And like gold it has psychological value but questionable use cases (gold's is mostly jewelry). But, like Beanie Babys or anything else (diamonds), it is "valuable" because people think it is valuable. People assign things to value things, like shiny and non-shiny rocks: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones and Bitcoin is no different: it's a digital rock.

game_the0ry 2y ago

Would be interested in hearing how you came to these conclusions, considering that none of your assertions have matched to reality as of yet. > Soon this will all collapse, reaching all time highs isn't a good thing. Why would the price collapse? Seems like BTC is getting mainstream adoption wit BTC ETFs. Even BlackRock's CEO seems to be pro-BTC, [1] which only increase price + demand. > Pyramid scheme at best, ponzi scheme at worst. Technically, every investing market is a ponzi scheme. > I still don't know any use case for this other than speculation and people aren't even using it in the real world. It has certainly found a use in the black market. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackrock-larry-fink-called-1-110000148.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/blackrock-larry-fink-called-1...

npoc 2y ago

In terms of significance, bitcoin ranks alongside the wheel, the printing-press and the internet. The use-case is to stop the wide-spread theft of your wealth, often (as in your case) without you realising, enabled by the fiat money printers around the world.