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At ‘Hacker Hostels,’ Living on the Cheap and Dreaming of Digital Glory
- NonEUCitizen 14y agoPhoto looks like a Foxconn dorm!
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoheh, that is from the first day we started, it actually looks more homey now. The photos in the NYT article are more appropriate.
- fitandfunction 14y agoNot bad, but surprised it's not cheaper. Airbnb shows numerous places with bedroom for let in the $40 - $60 / night range.
- rdl 14y agoFor "hacker short-term bedroom rentals", I wonder how much of a premium the market puts on transit access (or being in downtown PA/MV). I've been looking in Menlo Park (North Fair Oaks), and assuming buying a 2/1 with 1/1 detached studio could get $50/night or so for the 1/1, if set up properly. But NFO doesn't have great transit.
- fitandfunction 14y agoTo be clear, I think the price ($40 / night) is a decent. Cheap enough for most, particularly given the flexibility. Enough money for the landlord (my guess is they can easily pull in $5 - $8 k / mo) to provide decent services. I would like to see more competition ... e.g. include use of laundry, breakfast, etc.
- flavien_bessede 14y agoPretty much the same concept as what StartupHouse is in SF. (http://startuphouse.com http://startuphouse.com)
- thegreattiny 14y agoSimilar, but much smaller and more familial. And way less under construction.
- cmwelsh 14y ago$1200/month might be a good price for rent in San Francisco but you can bootstrap your startup at half the cost if you look around on Craigslist. It also helps to live somewhere other than one of the most expensive cities in the United States.
- majormajor 14y ago$40/night? I don't personally know anyone in Menlo Park, but know people with places to themselves in/very near SF for $1200/month. Even with rent going up lately, $1200/month for not even a private bedroom?
- pbreit 14y agoBuying something in smaller increments almost always costs (proportionally) more.
- gojomo 14y agoAt that rate, you're also paying for the lack of a long-term lease commitment, the location, and the amenities (in this case food, furnishings, and peers). Compared to hotels in these same area -- where you also pay for short-term convenience, furnishings, and immediacy of location/amenities -- it's still fairly cheap.
- calbear81 14y agoI'm not sure how $1,200 to sleep with 4 other people in a bedroom is considered fairly cheap when you compare the same rate at a hotel. $100/night, divided by 4, is $25/night per person in a decent hotel with a negotiated long term rate. Of course, you don't get the intangibles of being in a "hacker house" 24/7 and live out the dream.
- unwiredben 14y agoIsn't this just another name for a college dorm, but without the whole college classes and graduation and degree thing?
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoNot at all. We do get some grad students, but most or school drop-outs starting their own businesses. It is not a dorm, nor is it a hostel. Our guests have become my community; my family. We eat together, discuss politics, challenge each others ideas, and support each others endeavors. All this, with breakfast, fresh produce and California weather. It's personal, not a collegiate scam.
- tenaciousV 14y agoMy stay there was a wonderful experience and the place was nice. I get energize by having people around working towards the same goal and that is very valuable to me.
- captaintacos 14y agoNot to mention that spending a couple months in there might leave you with more opportunities than the day right after your graduation from CS.
- kiwidrew 14y agoWhen are people going to learn that PayPal is never, ever, ever to be trusted? > When the site started in May, $12,000 in orders for a car diagnostics device poured in right away. PayPal, which the founders used to process payments, decided their account was “high risk” and suspended it, freezing their money for six months, Mr. Wu said. Mr. Wu and Mr. El-Hage maxed out their credit cards to fulfill the orders. Without investors backing them, they nearly went broke. MassDrop has recovered to “above-ramen status, but not that much higher,” Mr. El-Hage said.
- Wingman4l7 14y agoI'd more specifically qualify that as: "Don't ever use PayPal to process a large & sudden volume of orders for a product" -- which, granted, can be hard to anticipate. It seems like this is a guaranteed way to trigger their fraud detection, getting your account frozen. This is anecdotally a bear to fix. I believe the GP2X guys got burned by this at one point. Also, doesn't PayPal frown on taking preorders in their ToS?
- Negitivefrags 14y agoWhen we launched our product we got ~100,000 in the first 24 hours and we didn't have our account locked, so it isn't guaranteed. After 48 hours the did put a 25,000 reserve on the account plus 10% of future transactions for 90 days though, which is annoying.
- rytis 14y agoWhat are my options if I'm not in US? GoCardless is great but not instantaneous afaik. Paypal is so easy from the user perspective (and has low upfront cost for the developer) that most just accept the risk. But they are evil, very evil.
- j45 14y agoI've found Paypal to be much better if you: 1) Call them and get to know them 2) Let them know what you're selling up front 3) Verify all your info -- connect a bank account to it, connect a credit card to it 4) before a launch, marketing blitz, or push, call and let them know. Why? They're not a bank, but they're like a bank. They have to manage risk. Keep them in the loop and your account has a much, much better chance of not being locked down.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoI admire these people who are willing to live in a 10-person dorm room while setting up their business, but the fact three "Hacker Hostels" have sprung up feels like a symptom of SF & SV being so over-hyped and incorrectly positioned as the only place innovation will occur with less friction. Am I wrong or just missing something? What real significant tangible benefit are these people getting that compels them to live like this and pay a relatively high cost for the privilege? $1,200/month or less gets you your own private room in a shared apartment in NYC, Boston, or just about anywhere else.
- qiqing 14y agoThe article really misrepresents Chez JJ. We have a professional cleaner come in every week and we cover food, including an organic vegetable subscription box from Farm Fresh. We're not like frat boys -- this is our home and we choose to let people in.
- kintamanimatt 14y agoI didn't necessarily think that it's dirty (although the article implies that it's untidy). I had no idea food was thrown in apart from the occasional cooked meal. If food is included, am I going to be meeting > 2,000 calories a day (or whatever the recommended is)? From the Airbnb listing it looks like only breakfast is included, not every meal like your comment suggests. My original point really wasn't about cleanliness or food, but about the true, measurable value that SF/SV brings. I don't know why people are compelled to travel from (for example) Toronto to live in a single dorm room with nine strangers, some or all of whom may snore. I imagine the people who stay will likely have their freedoms greatly restricted, even down to their choice of sleep schedule. I can only imagine the alternative would result in people disturbing each others' sleep. The whole "gotta be in SV/SF" mentality seems to be a product of massive amounts of hype that's driving these people to live in such relatively poor conditions for a relatively high amount. I just don't understand why people are acting like this.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- qiqing 14y agoI'd like to set the record straight about the nature of Chez JJ, which I feel, was very strongly misrepresented in the NYT article. What sets Chez JJ (and other community houses) apart from hostels and dorms is our family-like atmosphere. By welcoming guests into our home we are welcoming them into our family. They have become our friends and our co-founders. Startup life is an emotional roller coaster. As a community, we support each other through the trials and tests of life in Silicon Valley. More than half of Chez JJ residents who have applied to YC have been accepted. Maybe it helps that we grill each other. Or maybe it helps that we help each other relax in order to see the big picture. Or because our residents don't have to waste as much time on the minutiae of living because of what we provide. Maybe it's a form of self selection. It is a relevant point that living in group communities is more cost effective than living alone. When we all pitch in towards basic needs we are able to have a higher standard of living. We have weekly professional cleaners and subscribe to Farm Fresh, an organic vegetable delivery service. We provide coffee, tea, pancake mix, cereal, soymilk, and all the fresh fruits and vegetables you can find in our garden. We have regular dinner parties, and breakfast brunches. We have movie nights and hackathons and play board games. And we work closely with the owners of each of our houses know exactly what we are doing and are completely supportive. http://chezjj.com http://chezjj.com
- lizluna 14y agoI agree that Chez JJ was highly misrepresented. To compare to college dorms is superficial, it completely lacked the real essence of what makes the boarding at Chez JJ really special, the family-like atmosphere that creates emotional support for everyone in the hacking industry, and a great atmosphere to bounce ideas off each other. I felt that the article was written to laugh at people and their sub-par living conditions and start-up failures. It sorely diminishes the hard work and achievements that are continuously produced through the residence and the genuine care that is put in by the captains. It made Sasha sound like a callus bitch and the boarding sound filthy. Makes you feel that journalism cannot be trusted. LL Keyword: New York Times, Crammed Into Cheap Bunks, Dreaming of Future Digital Glory
- hack_edu 14y ago
- wilfra 14y agoDoes anybody know of a good site to find roommates/room for rent with other tech-minded people? If there isn't one, somebody should make it! Would be cool to live in a house with 3,4,5 others all working on startups - but how to find them if you don't all work in the same place?
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoYou can find us at ChezJJ.com. There are links to our AirBnb profiles there. Also there are community houses throughout the bay area. We have a few current guests who are looking for roommates, so maybe you can send me a private message with your e-mail and I can forward it along?
- wilfra 14y agoCool thanks. You guys might consider putting some type of forum or something on your site, people could post looking for people. Bunk beds sounds like a little much for me personally but it would be cool to rent my own room in a house filled with the kind of people coming through your place.
- jocelynscrayons 14y agogreat idea. That just might happen.
- robertelder 14y agohttps://www.airbnb.com/ https://www.airbnb.com/
- wilfra 14y ago:) I meant something more permanent, not a nightly rental.
- deepakg 14y ago"Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves " being tongue and cheek are we :)?
- kintamanimatt 14y agoI think this is a great line actually. The media is largely responsible for corrupting the original meaning of the word. At least they're now showing people it has multiple meanings, and that hacker doesn't always mean "malicious cracker".
- deepakg 14y agoI just found it ironical given Facebook's privacy record. Identity thieves and Mark Zuckerberg in the same sentence.
- yitchelle 14y agoI also got that feeling when I read this line. The word "hacker" has so many permutations that it needs to be qualify, ie malicious hacker, SaaS hacker, life hacker. It still means that the hacker is doing something to disrupt their domain.
- emcl 14y agoIs Mark Zuckerberg stealing our identities and storing it on disks too?
- melvinmt 14y agoYou have to love these bootstrap covers where they display $2,499+ MacBooks in the most impoverished settings.
- yen223 14y agoThe $2,499 MacBooks can potentially earn money, a nice bed does not.
- mietek 14y agoMacBook Air starts at $999.
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoPriorities, my friend. Priorities.
- sgornick 14y agoOpening soon ... http://20Mission.com http://20Mission.com A hacker hostel for Bitcoin startups. 41 rooms. Discount, of course, if paying rent using bitcoins. "Bitcoin's Hogwart's"
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- ramblerman 14y ago"for aspiring tech entrepreneurs on the bottom rung of the Silicon Valley ladder, those who haven’t yet achieved Facebook-level riches" I know this is written as good spirited humour, or at least I hope so. But measuring success against zuckerberg's assets is an unhealthy preoocupation. It's very typical of the "Get rich and retire by 30" crowd, for whom running a business is the byproduct of making money
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoAgreed.
- AVTizzle 14y agoI like how the term "hacker" is finally starting to be recognized in the mainstream press for a definition other than the criminal one: "Hackers — the Mark Zuckerberg variety, not the identity thieves — have long crammed into odd or tiny spaces and worked together to solve problems. In the 1960s, researchers at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory slept in the attic and, while waiting for their turn on the shared mainframe computer, sweated in the basement sauna."
- stefantalpalaru 14y agoUnfortunately, it's still the wrong definition. Ideally, journalists shouldn't feel obliged to make any distinction.
- throwaway1979 14y agoHeh ... I had to read the "Hacker" sentence thrice before I got it.
- bjnortier_hn 14y agoIs this not too insular? I get & agree with some of the arguments in favour of surrounding yourself with other innovators. In the same way that the Pixar building is designed to foster these interactions. But if you surround yourself with hackers all the time, there is the risk of losing track of the problems outside your circle. You need to talk to your customers. In the same way that people who work at Pixar go home to their kids and discover what their customers want.
- thegreattiny 14y agoEach Chez JJ captain screens for the best mix at the house, and none of us are developers by trade. We are designers, scientists, teachers, and entrepreneurs. Each of us has many ties within the tech industry and also without, and we sometimes purposefully accept non-technical residents for balance. We really do care about creating an atmosphere which facilitates growth and innovation best, and we've put a lot of thought into the community we're helping to build.
- minikomi 14y agoSee also "geekhouse" in Japan... A little less tidy though.
- pitt1980 14y agokind of interesting to think about this through the context of all the free online classes being offered. Its seems like what people say is, 'well you miss out on interacting with all the other Harvard students' not sure how welcoming these houses are to those without the right formal educational credentials "The captains, all women, screen for personalities and occupations, rejecting applicants who are not techies or simply have a poor attitude. Sasha Willins, a 26-year-old graphic designer who is captain of the San Francisco apartment, has a gentle way of saying no. “It’s not so much rejecting as it is asking so many questions until they withdraw their application,” she said." but it seems like being in the right 'hacker house', could replicate the advantages of getting to interact with Harvard students for a modest housing upcharge seems slightly more cost effective than cutting Harvard a 50K check
- sequoia 14y ago@qiqing: Are you willing to tell us a bit about the screening process? I'm curious about what worked, what didn't, what traits you learned to avoid etc..
- jocelynscrayons 14y agoOur first screening is through AirBnb. AirBnb is linked with Facebook, so it's easy to see if you have friends in common with the person who has messaged you. We also look at all the references the messager has already gotten through other travels. Those with the most get highest priority. We also give preference to references from friends, and from those who have stayed with us previously. The second screening is e-mail contact. If e-mail contact seems friendly and they have an interesting story to tell, about work, and projects and interests, then they are in. Extra points for bakers and chefs. Occasionally we'll have an egotistic and self entitled guest, but everyone is mostly awesome. We have never had to evict anyone based on bad behavior.
- qiqing 14y agoIt's mostly about cultural fit, which is more of an intuitive process for me. I wasn't selecting based on how well they pitched their companies but in their messages, if they seem like the kind of people I would prefer to live with. That is, if they're nerdy enough to enjoy watching Star Trek or Firefly with us, and conscientious enough (and enough of a team player) to clean up their own dishes. And weren't too "normal." Extra points for being excited about math and science, especially if it's not related to their current enterprise. People who try to be pushy via Airbnb messages, or are interested in only price (and not the hacker community) are generally not accepted. (Funny how it's MBAs and nontechnical people who see the least value in being part of a hacker community.) Also, people who aren't conscientious while they're with us have a lower probability of being accepted back, but fortunately, those are few and far between.
- tryitnow 14y agoThis is a great idea. I think there's a big opportunity for community based housing in general. I tried living in such a community, but it was in the co-housing tradition and required collective participation in chores. Ummm, no thanks. But the idea of a bunch of people with shared interests and at similar life stages living in the same place - it's just awesome. So much can get done when people with similar goals and diverse talents just "rub shoulders" on a daily business. Kismet is the source of much human greatness and a community based on shared interest of passionate, talented people is like a little kismet factory. I bet some clever people could create a social app that would facilitate the creation and maintenance of such mini-communities.