6 ms·

It's raining PFAS in South Florida – study

85 points by Jimmc414 2y ago

Jimmc414 2y ago
Article: https://phys.org/news/2024-11-rainwater-samples-reveals-literally-chemicals.amp https://phys.org/news/2024-11-rainwater-samples-reveals-lite...
nayuki 2y ago
Related: https://youtu.be/-ht7nOaIkpI?t=699 https://youtu.be/-ht7nOaIkpI?t=699 . MyLifeOutdoors - "Your Gear is Poisoning You! (Not Clickbait)" (14m21s) [2024-10-23] He mentions finding PFBA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorobutanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorobutanoic_acid ) in a pristine mountain stream, most likely because the chemical evaporates and gets carried by the air.
drawkward 2y ago
Don't worry, DeSantis will just enact legislation or make an Exec Order to forbid government employees talking about it. Problem solved!
- c-linkage 2y ago
  There is a far simpler solution. Just stop measuring it.
  - montagg 2y ago
    That's very likely. One of the proposals in Project 2025 is to defund NOAA. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/20/project-2025-trump-what-to-know https://www.axios.com/2024/07/20/project-2025-trump-what-to-...
    - jeff_carr 2y ago
      Trump can just take the whole NOAA budget himself now and replace them with a legal pad and a black sharpie. I assume that's the plan. Say, we can just steal anything from any budget now right?
- barbazoo 2y ago
  Or do it like Alberta and celebrate the pollutant instead https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/10/18/news/alberta-ucp-vote-co2-not-pollutant https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/10/18/news/alberta-ucp...
  - drawkward 2y ago
    Wow.
CSMastermind 2y ago
> Miami has been identified as the US city with the 3rd highest levels of PFAS pollution in groundwater among 44 locations assessed Do we know why? I don't think a lot of manufacturing happens near Miami.
- ggm 2y ago
  In '78 I worked as a general dogsbody doing water quality analysis around the river forth estuary. Suspended solids, phosphate & nitrates from fertiliser factories and manufacturing alongside sewage outfalls were measured right upstream, to tidal limits and from the top north shore to the south. 100km or more. My constant tl;dr is that stuff moves, and whilst nothing like the tidal zone, groundwater is anything but static. My case? Estuarine. The Biscayne aquifer is limestone. Highly porous. Water will travel as water does. If anything even close has contamination its getting in, if there's transport from surface water into the aquifer. The stuff here says urban canals and groundwater flows definitely feed in. Any firestation testing foam? Its in. PFAS contamination from airport fire testing is a thing. https://www.evergladesfoundation.org/post/water-on-earth-explaining-the-wonders-of-the-biscayne-aquifer https://www.evergladesfoundation.org/post/water-on-earth-exp...
- pengaru 2y ago
  This article goes into some of alleged sources: https://news.fiu.edu/2023/how-pfas-forever-chemicals-are-getting-into-miamis-biscayne-bay-where-dolphins-fish-and-manatees-dine https://news.fiu.edu/2023/how-pfas-forever-chemicals-are-get...
- greenavocado 2y ago
  Firefighting foam used in airports is a major source that dwarfs the rest
- alejohausner 2y ago
  The article just below mentions two major sources: - failing septic systems, and spilled wastewater. Lots of household products like food packaging and carpets are coated with oil- and water-repellent PFAs. When you wash these products, the PFAs end in the waste water. - airports and military bases use a fire-fighting foam that is made from a PFA. Also, Kennedy space center uses fire-fighting foams (although it's far from Miami, but then again Florida is one big aquifer).
nonelog 2y ago
Distilled water is the purest drinking water you can get on this planet (and you just need a $150 distiller producing about 1 gallon of clean water per run).
- sottol 2y ago
  It's also devoid of minerals so you might want to supplement, if you mean to consume distilled water.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  It's also unsafe to drink in larger quantities, as is seawater. Both will let you live for a few days if there is no other source of water, but anything longer and you're looking at serious levels of minerals mismatch.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    It's safe to drink if you're eating a balanced diet, since food will provide all the minerals you need. In very large quantities it's unsafe, but that's true of any kind of water.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > It's safe to drink if you're eating a balanced diet, since food will provide all the minerals you need. And that's a pretty ambitious assumption. A lot of people don't eat anything even close to a balanced diet, as evidenced by insane obesity rates or the return of malnutrition diseases like scurvy. [1] https://news.sky.com/story/scurvy-is-re-emerging-due-to-modern-diets-and-cost-of-living-pressures-doctors-in-australia-reveal-13239399 https://news.sky.com/story/scurvy-is-re-emerging-due-to-mode...
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        But we're talking about minerals here, common ones, not things like vitamins or iodine. Which mineral do you propose will be found in ordinary tap water but not in food? Anyway, I challenge you to come up with published evidence for your initial assertion there. I find it highly dubious. EDIT: I looked up calcium. The average tap water in the US contains about 50 mg/L of calcium. The minimum daily requirement for calcium intake is 1000 mg (1300 mg for teens). If you are depending on tap water for this mineral you're going to be in sad shape.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
I'm supper torn. I came up with a product that would probably sell well. It's not really needed (solves a simple issue people can take care of with a different product but just don't because it's inconvenient), and just dumps PFAS into houses (like that is kind of the product). As a hippie I haven't moved forward with it but at the same time I'd really like more money to help my adult children out. The idea came after learning of other products that just straight dump PFAS into the environment and thinking WTF this is horrible, I mean if we are willing to do that why not just XYZ (my product). It literally came from 'this is horrible'. And yet hippie me is torn because $$$. Us humans are not good at this stuff.
- esperent 2y ago
  Caring about the environment and about not poisoning your customers isn't "hippie", it's being a good human.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    If we lived in a sane society not knowingly poisoning your customers would be "avoid a long prison sentence" too, but many companies are currently knowingly poisoning their customers and there's nothing at all being done about it.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Seriously. I was shocked to learn that most synthetic bike chain lube is just straight liquid PFAS. And I'm guessing the biking industry is one that leans more left wing/protect the environment.

85 points by Jimmc414 2y ago

Article: https://phys.org/news/2024-11-rainwater-samples-reveals-literally-chemicals.amp https://phys.org/news/2024-11-rainwater-samples-reveals-lite...

nayuki 2y ago

Related: https://youtu.be/-ht7nOaIkpI?t=699 https://youtu.be/-ht7nOaIkpI?t=699 . MyLifeOutdoors - "Your Gear is Poisoning You! (Not Clickbait)" (14m21s) [2024-10-23] He mentions finding PFBA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorobutanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorobutanoic_acid ) in a pristine mountain stream, most likely because the chemical evaporates and gets carried by the air.

drawkward 2y ago

Don't worry, DeSantis will just enact legislation or make an Exec Order to forbid government employees talking about it. Problem solved!

c-linkage 2y ago
There is a far simpler solution. Just stop measuring it.
- montagg 2y ago
  That's very likely. One of the proposals in Project 2025 is to defund NOAA. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/20/project-2025-trump-what-to-know https://www.axios.com/2024/07/20/project-2025-trump-what-to-...
  - jeff_carr 2y ago
    Trump can just take the whole NOAA budget himself now and replace them with a legal pad and a black sharpie. I assume that's the plan. Say, we can just steal anything from any budget now right?
barbazoo 2y ago
Or do it like Alberta and celebrate the pollutant instead https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/10/18/news/alberta-ucp-vote-co2-not-pollutant https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/10/18/news/alberta-ucp...
- drawkward 2y ago
  Wow.

CSMastermind 2y ago

> Miami has been identified as the US city with the 3rd highest levels of PFAS pollution in groundwater among 44 locations assessed Do we know why? I don't think a lot of manufacturing happens near Miami.

ggm 2y ago
In '78 I worked as a general dogsbody doing water quality analysis around the river forth estuary. Suspended solids, phosphate & nitrates from fertiliser factories and manufacturing alongside sewage outfalls were measured right upstream, to tidal limits and from the top north shore to the south. 100km or more. My constant tl;dr is that stuff moves, and whilst nothing like the tidal zone, groundwater is anything but static. My case? Estuarine. The Biscayne aquifer is limestone. Highly porous. Water will travel as water does. If anything even close has contamination its getting in, if there's transport from surface water into the aquifer. The stuff here says urban canals and groundwater flows definitely feed in. Any firestation testing foam? Its in. PFAS contamination from airport fire testing is a thing. https://www.evergladesfoundation.org/post/water-on-earth-explaining-the-wonders-of-the-biscayne-aquifer https://www.evergladesfoundation.org/post/water-on-earth-exp...
pengaru 2y ago
This article goes into some of alleged sources: https://news.fiu.edu/2023/how-pfas-forever-chemicals-are-getting-into-miamis-biscayne-bay-where-dolphins-fish-and-manatees-dine https://news.fiu.edu/2023/how-pfas-forever-chemicals-are-get...
greenavocado 2y ago
Firefighting foam used in airports is a major source that dwarfs the rest
alejohausner 2y ago
The article just below mentions two major sources: - failing septic systems, and spilled wastewater. Lots of household products like food packaging and carpets are coated with oil- and water-repellent PFAs. When you wash these products, the PFAs end in the waste water. - airports and military bases use a fire-fighting foam that is made from a PFA. Also, Kennedy space center uses fire-fighting foams (although it's far from Miami, but then again Florida is one big aquifer).

nonelog 2y ago

Distilled water is the purest drinking water you can get on this planet (and you just need a $150 distiller producing about 1 gallon of clean water per run).

sottol 2y ago
It's also devoid of minerals so you might want to supplement, if you mean to consume distilled water.
mschuster91 2y ago
It's also unsafe to drink in larger quantities, as is seawater. Both will let you live for a few days if there is no other source of water, but anything longer and you're looking at serious levels of minerals mismatch.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  It's safe to drink if you're eating a balanced diet, since food will provide all the minerals you need. In very large quantities it's unsafe, but that's true of any kind of water.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > It's safe to drink if you're eating a balanced diet, since food will provide all the minerals you need. And that's a pretty ambitious assumption. A lot of people don't eat anything even close to a balanced diet, as evidenced by insane obesity rates or the return of malnutrition diseases like scurvy. [1] https://news.sky.com/story/scurvy-is-re-emerging-due-to-modern-diets-and-cost-of-living-pressures-doctors-in-australia-reveal-13239399 https://news.sky.com/story/scurvy-is-re-emerging-due-to-mode...
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      But we're talking about minerals here, common ones, not things like vitamins or iodine. Which mineral do you propose will be found in ordinary tap water but not in food? Anyway, I challenge you to come up with published evidence for your initial assertion there. I find it highly dubious. EDIT: I looked up calcium. The average tap water in the US contains about 50 mg/L of calcium. The minimum daily requirement for calcium intake is 1000 mg (1300 mg for teens). If you are depending on tap water for this mineral you're going to be in sad shape.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

I'm supper torn. I came up with a product that would probably sell well. It's not really needed (solves a simple issue people can take care of with a different product but just don't because it's inconvenient), and just dumps PFAS into houses (like that is kind of the product). As a hippie I haven't moved forward with it but at the same time I'd really like more money to help my adult children out. The idea came after learning of other products that just straight dump PFAS into the environment and thinking WTF this is horrible, I mean if we are willing to do that why not just XYZ (my product). It literally came from 'this is horrible'. And yet hippie me is torn because $$$. Us humans are not good at this stuff.

esperent 2y ago
Caring about the environment and about not poisoning your customers isn't "hippie", it's being a good human.
- autoexec 2y ago
  If we lived in a sane society not knowingly poisoning your customers would be "avoid a long prison sentence" too, but many companies are currently knowingly poisoning their customers and there's nothing at all being done about it.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Seriously. I was shocked to learn that most synthetic bike chain lube is just straight liquid PFAS. And I'm guessing the biking industry is one that leans more left wing/protect the environment.