4 ms·

As a foreigner, it seems like both sides are super extremely marginalised. Both sides believe everything will be done and there will be a big change if the othe

As a foreigner, it seems like both sides are super extremely marginalised. Both sides believe everything will be done and there will be a big change if the other side wins. Reality is really not that radical, people are being lit up by propoganda. Saying this as a Turkish person, this has been happening in our country almost since I was born and it destroyed politics, normalisation and being calm is much better than sensationalising everything. Imho biggest issues are related to economics, like housing, like dark money in elections. Meaningless topics are sensationalised to marginalise people and unfortunately it works every time. Politics shouldn’t be right vs left, it should be rich vs middle class vs poor, as economics is the single most impactful aspect on most people’s lives. But politicians want to rile everyone up and put them against each other.

Liquix 2y ago
In the US, it seems the 2011 Occupy Wall Street protests were the last time it was really the people vs. the incumbents. Ever since then all there's been are carefully manufactured conflicts with two sides to choose from, which divide the common class and cause them to argue amongst each other.
- slibhb 2y ago
  There's no reason at all to say Occupy was "real" whereas current conflicts are "manufactured."
- boxed 2y ago
  I think you have a too rosy image of the ineffective and confused Occupy Wall Street protests.
  - brodouevencode 2y ago
    A lot of whom were paid to be there.
    - gcr 2y ago
      Where did you hear this?
  - gcr 2y ago
    Now now, OP never implied that Occupy Wall Street was effective. :-) If anything, it points to the stark lack of class consciousness in America that even our biggest protests aren't generally able to create long lasting change. Personally, I'm reminded of MLK's Poor People Campaign shortly before he got FBI'd. Him and the black panthers were both trying to agitate around this issue in different nonpartisan ways, and they faced extreme prejudice from the state for their trouble.
- nargella 2y ago
  GME was, in my opinion, what occupy wall street should have been. Much more effective even.
  - surfpel 2y ago
    You’ll never beat the house.
    - nargella 2y ago
      tell that to melvin capital
      - surfpel 2y ago
        "Nine Investors Instantly Make $16 Billion On GameStop Stock 'Squeeze'" House still won. That fun narrative just makes people feel like they matter while they get screwed. https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/gme-stock-gamestop-investors-instantly-make-16-billion-gamestop-stock-squeeze/ https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/gme-stock-g...
dtquad 2y ago
>Politics shouldn’t be right vs left, it should be rich vs middle class vs poor, as economics is the single most impactful aspect on most people’s lives. I agree but ironically this kind of rhetoric is actually how the American left (not the Democrats) were undermined and now Americans are overworked slaves working two or more jobs to live paycheck to paycheck. "Right vs left" does matter and it was organized left-wing efforts that created the superior life-work balance and healthcare in Europe.
- pc86 2y ago
  > it was organized left-wing efforts that created the superior life-work balance and healthcare in Europe The US economy thanks you for getting out of the way, I guess. Americans aren't flying to Europe for healthcare - it's the other way around (if you can afford it). So it may be "superior" in the sense that you're just paying for it your entire life via taxes instead of at the time of service and through employer-subsidized insurance, but it's not "superior" in terms of care. Politics shouldn't be anyone "vs" anyone else. It should be "how can we fix what's broken, how can we make what's good even better." Trump's message was largely "here's how I will fix the economy" and "here's how I will fix the border." Harris's message was "I'm not Trump" and "I won't change any policy of the Biden administration."
  - lolc 2y ago
    That "if you can afford it" is an important qualifier. I read people struggle to source insulin in the US.
    - pc86 2y ago
      I meant "if, as a foreign national, you can afford to fly to the US for healthcare." Rich Europeans flying to the US for specialized healthcare happens a lot more than rich Americans flying to the EU for specialized healthcare and there's a reason for that.
      - kelnos 2y ago
bikamonki 2y ago
Very well put. I also live in a country where this kind of politics is everyday politics. Nothing really changes for good.
aurareturn 2y ago
I agree. American has more wealth than ever but it's not distributed. All these issues that serve to distract people from the one thing that will make the biggest difference in their lives: personal economics. Elites are really good at doing that. Go pay attention to China, Russia, gun control, birth control, diversity, BLM, transgender rights. Meanwhile, I will continue to disproportionately take more of America's wealth.
behringer 2y ago
We're definitely going to be seeing big changes. Trump and the conservatives are in charge. They are going to execute project 2025. They setup all the ground work during Trump's last term. Ukraine will be lost. Russia will encroach on Europe. The Republicans will staff Judges everywhere and build a stronger conservative justice system. The rich will dominate even further over the poor and the US will become an extension of the Kremlin. Trump may also try to set the stage for more dictatorial control. The only good thing about this election is Trump is so old he probably won't try to create a dictatorship since he won't benefit from it. But have no doubt the democrats will not be taking back control within the next generation or two.
- DontchaKnowit 2y ago
  Next president will be a democrat, calling it now. You are doing the exact type of sensationalising that OP was talking about
  - behringer 2y ago
    I'm not convinced but I got the popcorn ready. And it's not sensational ism when it's exactly what Trump has promised to do and was in the process of doing when he was fired the first time.
arolihas 2y ago
So as a Turkish person do you believe the other side is just as bad as Erdogan? Do you think inflation would be just as bad?
entropi 2y ago
As another Turkish person, I find the resemblence between this election and the one we had a year ago rather uncanny. - election between rightist strongman vs. boring guy whose most important selling point is not being the other guy. Also a somewhat controversial candidacy. - Deep divide between coastal lines vs. the rest; educated and the rest. - Polls not being confident on either candidate, but the strongman gets mire votes than expected. Etc. etc. I find it rather strange. (I do enjoy the memes on the Turkish social media though)

Liquix 2y ago

In the US, it seems the 2011 Occupy Wall Street protests were the last time it was really the people vs. the incumbents. Ever since then all there's been are carefully manufactured conflicts with two sides to choose from, which divide the common class and cause them to argue amongst each other.

slibhb 2y ago
There's no reason at all to say Occupy was "real" whereas current conflicts are "manufactured."
boxed 2y ago
I think you have a too rosy image of the ineffective and confused Occupy Wall Street protests.
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  A lot of whom were paid to be there.
  - gcr 2y ago
    Where did you hear this?
- gcr 2y ago
  Now now, OP never implied that Occupy Wall Street was effective. :-) If anything, it points to the stark lack of class consciousness in America that even our biggest protests aren't generally able to create long lasting change. Personally, I'm reminded of MLK's Poor People Campaign shortly before he got FBI'd. Him and the black panthers were both trying to agitate around this issue in different nonpartisan ways, and they faced extreme prejudice from the state for their trouble.
nargella 2y ago
GME was, in my opinion, what occupy wall street should have been. Much more effective even.
- surfpel 2y ago
  You’ll never beat the house.
  - nargella 2y ago
    tell that to melvin capital
    - surfpel 2y ago
      "Nine Investors Instantly Make $16 Billion On GameStop Stock 'Squeeze'" House still won. That fun narrative just makes people feel like they matter while they get screwed. https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/gme-stock-gamestop-investors-instantly-make-16-billion-gamestop-stock-squeeze/ https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/gme-stock-g...

dtquad 2y ago

>Politics shouldn’t be right vs left, it should be rich vs middle class vs poor, as economics is the single most impactful aspect on most people’s lives. I agree but ironically this kind of rhetoric is actually how the American left (not the Democrats) were undermined and now Americans are overworked slaves working two or more jobs to live paycheck to paycheck. "Right vs left" does matter and it was organized left-wing efforts that created the superior life-work balance and healthcare in Europe.

pc86 2y ago
> it was organized left-wing efforts that created the superior life-work balance and healthcare in Europe The US economy thanks you for getting out of the way, I guess. Americans aren't flying to Europe for healthcare - it's the other way around (if you can afford it). So it may be "superior" in the sense that you're just paying for it your entire life via taxes instead of at the time of service and through employer-subsidized insurance, but it's not "superior" in terms of care. Politics shouldn't be anyone "vs" anyone else. It should be "how can we fix what's broken, how can we make what's good even better." Trump's message was largely "here's how I will fix the economy" and "here's how I will fix the border." Harris's message was "I'm not Trump" and "I won't change any policy of the Biden administration."
- lolc 2y ago
  That "if you can afford it" is an important qualifier. I read people struggle to source insulin in the US.
  - pc86 2y ago
    I meant "if, as a foreign national, you can afford to fly to the US for healthcare." Rich Europeans flying to the US for specialized healthcare happens a lot more than rich Americans flying to the EU for specialized healthcare and there's a reason for that.
    - kelnos 2y ago

bikamonki 2y ago

Very well put. I also live in a country where this kind of politics is everyday politics. Nothing really changes for good.

aurareturn 2y ago

I agree. American has more wealth than ever but it's not distributed. All these issues that serve to distract people from the one thing that will make the biggest difference in their lives: personal economics. Elites are really good at doing that. Go pay attention to China, Russia, gun control, birth control, diversity, BLM, transgender rights. Meanwhile, I will continue to disproportionately take more of America's wealth.

behringer 2y ago

We're definitely going to be seeing big changes. Trump and the conservatives are in charge. They are going to execute project 2025. They setup all the ground work during Trump's last term. Ukraine will be lost. Russia will encroach on Europe. The Republicans will staff Judges everywhere and build a stronger conservative justice system. The rich will dominate even further over the poor and the US will become an extension of the Kremlin. Trump may also try to set the stage for more dictatorial control. The only good thing about this election is Trump is so old he probably won't try to create a dictatorship since he won't benefit from it. But have no doubt the democrats will not be taking back control within the next generation or two.

DontchaKnowit 2y ago
Next president will be a democrat, calling it now. You are doing the exact type of sensationalising that OP was talking about
- behringer 2y ago
  I'm not convinced but I got the popcorn ready. And it's not sensational ism when it's exactly what Trump has promised to do and was in the process of doing when he was fired the first time.

arolihas 2y ago

So as a Turkish person do you believe the other side is just as bad as Erdogan? Do you think inflation would be just as bad?

entropi 2y ago

As another Turkish person, I find the resemblence between this election and the one we had a year ago rather uncanny. - election between rightist strongman vs. boring guy whose most important selling point is not being the other guy. Also a somewhat controversial candidacy. - Deep divide between coastal lines vs. the rest; educated and the rest. - Polls not being confident on either candidate, but the strongman gets mire votes than expected. Etc. etc. I find it rather strange. (I do enjoy the memes on the Turkish social media though)