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Trump doesn’t want to leave NATO, that would be dumb. He wants those not “paying their fair share” to pay more or the US will leave. It’s a negotiating tactic.

Trump doesn’t want to leave NATO, that would be dumb. He wants those not “paying their fair share” to pay more or the US will leave. It’s a negotiating tactic. So if you don’t want the US to leave NATO and you’re in a NATO country then get them to spend more on NATO.

hfsh 2y ago
And by 'pay more' he means 'buy more US weapons'. NATO is a conveniently captive market for the US arms manufacturers, and no way they're going to want to pull out of that while they still have stock to sell.
- tekknik 2y ago
  you’re free to make your own weapons, plenty of NATO countries do.
- codersfocus 2y ago
  Turkey bought Russian weapons and wasn't kicked out. They were barred from buying more US weapons for a while.
AndyJames 2y ago
Before 2020 elections John Bolton said that Trump doesn't see the point for NATO and will consider withdrawing if he wins in 2020. Because of that a NATO Support at was passed in Congress to block the president from single handly withdraw the US from NATO. That was over 4 years ago, hopefully he changed his mind.
- kyleee 2y ago
  Reminder that Bolton is an insane person, so who knows if what he says publicly about Trump’s intentions are true.
- tekknik 2y ago
  as a veteran i also don’t see the full point. i understand the intent behind it but the actual implementation is garbage. the US is paying large sums of money to protect land we don’t own. but if we very other NATO country steps up well then the collective defense works.
Epa095 2y ago
You probably know this, but just in case: NATO is not a club you pay 2% in to for protection. The 2% is the required spending on YOUR OWN defence. In practice this benefits USA as a major weapon producer, at least it has until now. I have a feeling Europe feels less certain that they will buy American next time.
- tekknik 2y ago
  OK? how did this statement change anything I posted? I guess you didn’t know this, the idea is strength in numbers. If you can’t provide for personal and collective defense, gtfo.
  - gcr 2y ago
    Doesn't strength in numbers contradict your idea of kicking out the weak? When I hear phrases like strength in numbers, I think of elephants. When a herd of elephants watches lions circle their community, the strong ones stand around their young to protect them. That's analogous to "strong" countries subsidizing ones who can't provide for themselves, because having an allied presence is helpful.
    - lukas099 2y ago
      It’s not that they can’t protect themselves, it’s that they would rather spend the money on their own social programs.
      - tekknik 2y ago
        exactly
    - tekknik 2y ago
      Sure, but if they’re not pulling their weight then they’re a detriment. Have you served next to a foreign NATO soldier? I have. I wasn’t impressed. Step up your spending or gtfo.
  - Epa095 2y ago
timeon 2y ago
Maybe EU countries should be those that leave NATO so they won't be blackmailed. They have some nuclear capable countries already. It would be much weaker alliance but with nuclear warhead one just need to press the button. Since EU states are getting more and more populists leaders this can happen eventually.
- tekknik 2y ago
  please do, Europe has a fraction of the military might the US does, and nobody owns more nukes than Russia and the US. Russia is also a 3 min flight time to Europe, so you have a literal 0% chance of stopping a Russian nuclear attack. please leave or step up.
theGnuMe 2y ago
My theory is that we will leave Nato because he won’t want war when Putin pushes into Europe. His base doesn’t care frankly. The direct cost is too high and they can’t see past grocery prices. That will all depend on how worn down the Russian military actually is and how long it needs to rebuild. And at any rate the threat of Russian military action will be used to punish any European country that doesn’t accept Russian influence. It will be used on former Soviet republics. The only thing that may stop Trump and saving Europe is his ego now that he has effective immunity from prosecution as Putin is no longer a threat to him. We will see who the bigger narcissist actually is. Putin is probably smarter though. We need some seriously smart republicans. Countries with right wing Russian aligned puppets may prevent direct conflict by appeasement but nevertheless they will be under Putin’s control. China will continue being China. Where semiconductors fall will be interesting as will access to battery tech. Trump will print money to appease his base and we will see exactly how economic forces evolve beyond control. Buying crypto now seems like a good idea.
- tekknik 2y ago
  > My theory is that we will leave Nato because he won’t want war when Putin pushes into Europe. I stopped reading here. If Putin expands the war it will be nuclear. No country will survive. WW3 is coming soon.
sensanaty 2y ago
He was very correct in calling out EU countries on Russian gas reliance (which is still somehow an issue!), and also on the EU being way too comfortable with letting the US pick up the slack when it came to our defense. The EU SHOULD be spending the agreed upon 2%, all this weasley shit the EU gov'ts are pulling is a complete joke considering the massive Bear in the room that is Russia.

hfsh 2y ago

And by 'pay more' he means 'buy more US weapons'. NATO is a conveniently captive market for the US arms manufacturers, and no way they're going to want to pull out of that while they still have stock to sell.

tekknik 2y ago
you’re free to make your own weapons, plenty of NATO countries do.
codersfocus 2y ago
Turkey bought Russian weapons and wasn't kicked out. They were barred from buying more US weapons for a while.

AndyJames 2y ago

Before 2020 elections John Bolton said that Trump doesn't see the point for NATO and will consider withdrawing if he wins in 2020. Because of that a NATO Support at was passed in Congress to block the president from single handly withdraw the US from NATO. That was over 4 years ago, hopefully he changed his mind.

kyleee 2y ago
Reminder that Bolton is an insane person, so who knows if what he says publicly about Trump’s intentions are true.
tekknik 2y ago
as a veteran i also don’t see the full point. i understand the intent behind it but the actual implementation is garbage. the US is paying large sums of money to protect land we don’t own. but if we very other NATO country steps up well then the collective defense works.

Epa095 2y ago

You probably know this, but just in case: NATO is not a club you pay 2% in to for protection. The 2% is the required spending on YOUR OWN defence. In practice this benefits USA as a major weapon producer, at least it has until now. I have a feeling Europe feels less certain that they will buy American next time.

tekknik 2y ago
OK? how did this statement change anything I posted? I guess you didn’t know this, the idea is strength in numbers. If you can’t provide for personal and collective defense, gtfo.
- gcr 2y ago
  Doesn't strength in numbers contradict your idea of kicking out the weak? When I hear phrases like strength in numbers, I think of elephants. When a herd of elephants watches lions circle their community, the strong ones stand around their young to protect them. That's analogous to "strong" countries subsidizing ones who can't provide for themselves, because having an allied presence is helpful.
  - lukas099 2y ago
    It’s not that they can’t protect themselves, it’s that they would rather spend the money on their own social programs.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      exactly
  - tekknik 2y ago
    Sure, but if they’re not pulling their weight then they’re a detriment. Have you served next to a foreign NATO soldier? I have. I wasn’t impressed. Step up your spending or gtfo.
- Epa095 2y ago

timeon 2y ago

Maybe EU countries should be those that leave NATO so they won't be blackmailed. They have some nuclear capable countries already. It would be much weaker alliance but with nuclear warhead one just need to press the button. Since EU states are getting more and more populists leaders this can happen eventually.

tekknik 2y ago
please do, Europe has a fraction of the military might the US does, and nobody owns more nukes than Russia and the US. Russia is also a 3 min flight time to Europe, so you have a literal 0% chance of stopping a Russian nuclear attack. please leave or step up.

theGnuMe 2y ago

My theory is that we will leave Nato because he won’t want war when Putin pushes into Europe. His base doesn’t care frankly. The direct cost is too high and they can’t see past grocery prices. That will all depend on how worn down the Russian military actually is and how long it needs to rebuild. And at any rate the threat of Russian military action will be used to punish any European country that doesn’t accept Russian influence. It will be used on former Soviet republics. The only thing that may stop Trump and saving Europe is his ego now that he has effective immunity from prosecution as Putin is no longer a threat to him. We will see who the bigger narcissist actually is. Putin is probably smarter though. We need some seriously smart republicans. Countries with right wing Russian aligned puppets may prevent direct conflict by appeasement but nevertheless they will be under Putin’s control. China will continue being China. Where semiconductors fall will be interesting as will access to battery tech. Trump will print money to appease his base and we will see exactly how economic forces evolve beyond control. Buying crypto now seems like a good idea.

tekknik 2y ago
> My theory is that we will leave Nato because he won’t want war when Putin pushes into Europe. I stopped reading here. If Putin expands the war it will be nuclear. No country will survive. WW3 is coming soon.

sensanaty 2y ago

He was very correct in calling out EU countries on Russian gas reliance (which is still somehow an issue!), and also on the EU being way too comfortable with letting the US pick up the slack when it came to our defense. The EU SHOULD be spending the agreed upon 2%, all this weasley shit the EU gov'ts are pulling is a complete joke considering the massive Bear in the room that is Russia.