3 ms·

You'd need proportional representation or something like the French system or you wind up with very skewed results for example the UK's most recent election ha

You'd need proportional representation or something like the French system or you wind up with very skewed results for example the UK's most recent election had the following - one party has 410/650 of the seats in government with a third of the popular vote - they gained 211 seats from the previous election off the back of a 1.5% swing in the popular vote - another party has 65/650 of seats with 12% of the vote, another has 5/650 seats with 14.5% of the vote

IncreasePosts 2y ago
Runoff voting or something similar would work too. Tons of people don't vote for their preferred 3rd party because they realistically want to help their slightly-aligned major party defeat their not-aligned other major party.
- manmal 2y ago
  That reminds me a lot of South Park episode 8 of season 8.
paldepind2 2y ago
> You'd need proportional representation or something like the French system or you wind up with very skewed results Is the French system a good example of a multi-party system? It currently seems to be struggling with handling three parties and it doesn't guarantee proportional representation. The presidential election is a winner-takes-all system and in the election for the Assemblée Nationale each constituency is a winner-takes-all.
- unbrice 2y ago
  > Is the French system a good example of a multi-party system? I would say yes in the sense a new party can (and did) emerge and rise to power when there is demand. Even before that you had some healthy rise and fall of political parties and political alternance beyond just two main contenders. > It currently seems to be struggling with handling three parties There are like 6 parties with more than 10% of seats, the current government is a coalition of five parties (from two main "families") and no shutdowns or hung parliament. > Doesn't guarantee proportional representation That however is true, and by design. This is a property the french voting system share with eg: ranked choice and other systems that aim at resolving the compromise as part of the election rather than afterwards. I don't mean to say that the french voting system is perfect (I quite like ranked choice), simply that it is a functioning one with interesting properties.
  - paldepind2 2y ago
    Thanks. I had no idea there where that many parties in the parliament. At the last election I got the impression that it was just Le Pen's party, Macron's party, and a left-wing coalition. But I guess that was simplifying media coverage.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      Technically all of the main three blocs were coalitions, the bigger picture matching your description. The left-wing coalition was about 9~10 parties, Macron's coalition was around 6~7 right leaning/centrist parties, and Le Pen's block joined by one or two smaller far right/conservative parties.
- JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  not necessarily, I just wanted to give an example of the kind of measures that would be required to handle multiple parties that people might already know.
kelipso 2y ago
The House of Representatives in the US gets voted in the exact same way that Parliament in the UK gets voted. Yet there isn't a single third party seat in the House. The problem is something non-electoral, like the third parties are not trying hard enough, or they are being blocked somehow, if they don't have even one seat in the House.
- dmitrygr 2y ago
  https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-us-states-make-it-tough-third-parties-elections-2024-01-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-us-states-make-it-tough...
- throwaheyy 2y ago
  Not the exact same way — far from it. Look up ranked choice voting. It makes third (and beyond) parties actually viable.
  - kelipso 2y ago
    I was talking about the US House and UK Parliament, neither of which use ranked choice voting.
- samier-trellis 2y ago
  I don't think third parties even really try to organize and do the boring work of proving themselves in local/state office. They are just spoilers; you don't see the Libertarians or Greens saying "you know what, forget the presidency, obviously we aren't going to win--let's field candidates for like mayor, city council, DA, state legislature, etc. in really swingy/purple districts and show people what we can do"
  - kelipso 2y ago
    Yep, the pure delusional thinking required to seriously run for the presidency when they don't have a single elected federal position anywhere. It's beyond absurd.
- 2y ago
n4r9 2y ago
And get this, fewer people voted for Starmer in 2024 than voted for Jeremy Corbyn in either 2017 or 2019.
a_victorp 2y ago
> one party has 410/650 of the seats in government with a third of the popular vote WTF? I didn't know UK had such a weird voting system
- JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  Bill Clinton got elected as president with 43% of the vote. The US system with more than two parties would have the exact same issues. Here's an election in the SDP split largely from Labour; the result was ultimately the Conservatives gaining 10% more seats when their vote share went down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_Kingdom_general_el... Both of the last two elections were heavily impacted by Nigel Farage's parties in different ways; gaining very few seats but acting massively to the detriment of Labour in 2019 and even more to the Conservatives in 2024

IncreasePosts 2y ago

Runoff voting or something similar would work too. Tons of people don't vote for their preferred 3rd party because they realistically want to help their slightly-aligned major party defeat their not-aligned other major party.

manmal 2y ago
That reminds me a lot of South Park episode 8 of season 8.

paldepind2 2y ago

> You'd need proportional representation or something like the French system or you wind up with very skewed results Is the French system a good example of a multi-party system? It currently seems to be struggling with handling three parties and it doesn't guarantee proportional representation. The presidential election is a winner-takes-all system and in the election for the Assemblée Nationale each constituency is a winner-takes-all.

unbrice 2y ago
> Is the French system a good example of a multi-party system? I would say yes in the sense a new party can (and did) emerge and rise to power when there is demand. Even before that you had some healthy rise and fall of political parties and political alternance beyond just two main contenders. > It currently seems to be struggling with handling three parties There are like 6 parties with more than 10% of seats, the current government is a coalition of five parties (from two main "families") and no shutdowns or hung parliament. > Doesn't guarantee proportional representation That however is true, and by design. This is a property the french voting system share with eg: ranked choice and other systems that aim at resolving the compromise as part of the election rather than afterwards. I don't mean to say that the french voting system is perfect (I quite like ranked choice), simply that it is a functioning one with interesting properties.
- paldepind2 2y ago
  Thanks. I had no idea there where that many parties in the parliament. At the last election I got the impression that it was just Le Pen's party, Macron's party, and a left-wing coalition. But I guess that was simplifying media coverage.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Technically all of the main three blocs were coalitions, the bigger picture matching your description. The left-wing coalition was about 9~10 parties, Macron's coalition was around 6~7 right leaning/centrist parties, and Le Pen's block joined by one or two smaller far right/conservative parties.
JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
not necessarily, I just wanted to give an example of the kind of measures that would be required to handle multiple parties that people might already know.

kelipso 2y ago

The House of Representatives in the US gets voted in the exact same way that Parliament in the UK gets voted. Yet there isn't a single third party seat in the House. The problem is something non-electoral, like the third parties are not trying hard enough, or they are being blocked somehow, if they don't have even one seat in the House.

dmitrygr 2y ago
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-us-states-make-it-tough-third-parties-elections-2024-01-18/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-us-states-make-it-tough...
throwaheyy 2y ago
Not the exact same way — far from it. Look up ranked choice voting. It makes third (and beyond) parties actually viable.
- kelipso 2y ago
  I was talking about the US House and UK Parliament, neither of which use ranked choice voting.
samier-trellis 2y ago
I don't think third parties even really try to organize and do the boring work of proving themselves in local/state office. They are just spoilers; you don't see the Libertarians or Greens saying "you know what, forget the presidency, obviously we aren't going to win--let's field candidates for like mayor, city council, DA, state legislature, etc. in really swingy/purple districts and show people what we can do"
- kelipso 2y ago
  Yep, the pure delusional thinking required to seriously run for the presidency when they don't have a single elected federal position anywhere. It's beyond absurd.
2y ago

n4r9 2y ago

And get this, fewer people voted for Starmer in 2024 than voted for Jeremy Corbyn in either 2017 or 2019.

a_victorp 2y ago

> one party has 410/650 of the seats in government with a third of the popular vote WTF? I didn't know UK had such a weird voting system

JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
Bill Clinton got elected as president with 43% of the vote. The US system with more than two parties would have the exact same issues. Here's an election in the SDP split largely from Labour; the result was ultimately the Conservatives gaining 10% more seats when their vote share went down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_Kingdom_general_el... Both of the last two elections were heavily impacted by Nigel Farage's parties in different ways; gaining very few seats but acting massively to the detriment of Labour in 2019 and even more to the Conservatives in 2024